What Women Want Today
Midlife brings many changes in a woman's life. Our bodies are changing so much that it can feel scary and upsetting. It affects our mental well-being and relationships with our significant others. Many women also become empty nesters now, and we can be left wondering what's next.If you're looking for a community of women, so you don't have to go through this alone, you've come to the right spot. You will hear stories from women who have made pivots, resources for managing menopause, and teachings from Terri Kellums, coach to midlife and empty-nest women seeking fulfillment by discovering their passions and purpose
What Women Want Today
Deepening our Connections with Intimate Roadmaps
Have you ever wondered what nurturing female friendships and encouraging intimacy takes? Well, today my co-host Amanda Keeper and I decided to find out. We exchanged stories, shared our deepest fears, and navigated various topics, from our pet peeves, recurring dreams, and lottery dreams to the nostalgia of our childhood memories. One thing that stood out was our conversation on the power of meaningful advice and how it has shaped our lives, especially in our careers and parenting choices.
In one of our most personal and enlightening episodes, We reminisced over our favorite Christmas movies and even revealed some of the craziest things we'd done as teenagers. Terri, candid as ever, opened up about her fears of aging and being alone, leading to an enlightening discussion on embracing change. We were all reminded of the power of open conversations in deepening connections and understanding ourselves better.
We ended our conversation on a high note with a fun and humorous gift exchange, a testament to the importance of love and the deep connections that we've fostered. So, are you ready to join us on this enriching journey of self-discovery? We promise our heartfelt and insightful chat will inspire you to have similar conversations with your friends and loved ones.
Remember to go to the Facebook community and share your favorite childhood comfort foods!
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You're listening to the what Women Want Today podcast. If you love the idea of being part of a community of women who are looking to thrive, not just survive, you're in the right place. Join hosts Terry Cullums and Amanda Keeper each week, as they bring you topics and guests to help you improve your relationships, your health and your emotional and spiritual well-being.
Speaker 2:Welcome to this week's episode of the what Women Want Today podcast. I'm your host, terry Cullums.
Speaker 3:And I'm your co-host, Amanda Keeper. Happy holidays everybody.
Speaker 2:Oh yes, how was your Thanksgiving?
Speaker 3:It was great. We had a full house, we had grandkids over, we had my niece over, we had our anniversary this weekend.
Speaker 2:So we spent time at Chicago.
Speaker 3:We went to a play called Drunken Shakespeare, which was absolutely hysterical. It's got really great writing, so if it comes to your area, I would recommend it. However, it's very private, very intimate, and they put it in small quarters. You don't know where it's going to pop up, and so if you're COVID conscious, you might want to wear a mask, because you are sitting very close to people and the actors spit a lot, which was very troublesome to my husband.
Speaker 2:You know what we also. We went to Phoenix for Thanksgiving but I didn't get enough turkey. So I think I'm going to cook another turkey dinner and we'll see if our friends that live down here can come. Their work schedule, her work schedule she works on the weekends a lot, so it might not be easy for us to do, but I saw the turkeys unsealed today at the grocery store and I thought, yeah, I'm going to do this, I'm going to have a I love.
Speaker 3:You said that because I have been eating turkey leftovers, which I usually do not do, and Gary was in the kitchen earlier today and he said man, I just cannot get enough turkey. I'm not sick of it yet and I go, and I'm not sick of the stuffing or the mashed potatoes, I was just like you know what.
Speaker 2:My favorite thing to eat after Thanksgiving is and it's all cold it's turkey with leftover stuffing and some cranberry sauce on it, and literally what you're eating. Yes, and some butter, because I'm from the Midwest so we got to put some butter on there. But luckily I made it through the holidays and stuck pretty close to my low carb. You know new way of eating that I do, but I got on the scale this morning. I was a little scared and it didn't really move, so I was grateful for that.
Speaker 3:I mean it's so nice, I'm not going to weigh myself for two weeks.
Speaker 2:You know, that was my original plan. And then I thought you know what, let me just see what a couple of days of not being as strict as for my weight, and because I've lost six pounds now. So I want to just like keep going on that. You know, I don't want to have a setback. So I was like, oh, do I weigh myself? To weigh myself. But ultimately I guess, I decided to. Yeah.
Speaker 1:All about the last night.
Speaker 2:Yes, you came up with a very interesting idea for this week's show, so I'm going to let you go ahead and introduce it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I think it would be great to do the Friendsgiving theme, just like you were talking about with having another turkey in front of over.
Speaker 3:But I told Terry you know what, on our podcast, one of the things that we really want to do is focus on relationships and deepening the intimacy in relationships, and that's all relationships. But one thing that Terry and I agree on and we're extremely fond and like passionate about, is our friendship and female friendships in general, and so we thought you know what, why don't we ask each other questions and get to know each other even more? Because one thing that I know from research is that if you pursue each other and you keep trying to learn more and more and more about each other, you will keep the intimacy growing. And it's when you stop dating your friend, it's when you stop dating your spouse and you assume you know everything, that things can get really boring and stale. And, as you know, listeners, you've heard me talk about John Gottman before, but he says one of the best things that you can do is really continue to build your landscape and your map of your best friend or your partner or your kids, whoever's in your life. Just keep pursuing them and keep trying to get to know them intimately.
Speaker 3:And so we thought we would have some fun and I asked Terry to come up with a list of questions. I came up with a list of questions, and Terry and I are going to see if we can learn even more about each other after all these years of friendship, and we encourage you to do the same thing. You can use our questions. We'll post a list of questions that I have a link for to share with Terry and have some fun with your friends as well. So, yeah, you know what I heard.
Speaker 2:Oh, sorry, I just wanted to say one thing before we jump in. But you know, what I heard this morning on my way to the grocery store was I was listening to a podcast and the guy said, if you have hard time with anything in life, like like, think about it this way, keep the simple things simpler. And so I was like, oh, how does that apply? How does that apply? And you know, oftentimes, like I will get together with it, whether it's you or you know, being at a Thanksgiving table with people I don't know very well, or I had, I was lucky enough to have brunch with my daughter, madeline, who lives in Flagstaff. She happened to be in the Phoenix area, and so I was with her and her, her boyfriend, peter, who I've only met like three times, I think three or four times. And so, you know, like my thought was all about like connecting.
Speaker 2:But you're in the moment and you're like so excited and you don't always think of the questions you want to ask, and as I'm driving like the 45 minutes back to where we were staying, I'm like, oh, I wish I would have asked this, I wish I would have asked that. So if you are someone who struggles with, like you know, setting the stage for those intimate conversations. This is like a life hack, like there are so many questions. You can go on Pinterest and there's just a ton of questions to connect deeper, to create intimacy with your spouse, or you know, just feel free to borrow the ones that Amanda and I have come up with today, but I mean keeping the simple, simpler right. I have the questions ahead of time and just do it.
Speaker 3:Yes. And there's like there's an unlimited amount of resources and you'll see some in the show notes. Okay, so, Terry, what's the first thing that you notice when you meet a person?
Speaker 2:That's a really good question. I think I notice they're they're like demeanor, like there's the space that they're filling up, like are they someone who commands attention or are they someone who kind of hangs back, maybe a little bit more shy, and I think I'm looking for that, because if they are the second one that I said, the more shy. You know. I feel challenged then to bring out a conversation in them, like to get to know them, to make them feel included and part of it.
Speaker 3:So you're kind of always looking for the unseen person around the table.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I want everybody to feel included.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Brian always compliments me on that after we have, after we're at Get Together. He's like you always try to make everybody included in the conversation and it's not. You know, I'm not always successful at it, but it's like a challenge. Like how can I take this person that's sitting, and oftentimes at holiday gatherings it's his son, braden, because he's so quiet and I want to make him, I want to bring him into conversation and get him to feel like he's a part of it. So so are we going to go back and forth with these?
Speaker 3:Yes, but we can ask follow-ups. So, terry, you have told me about that before. I did know that about, so that doesn't really surprise me. What goes through your mind when you're sitting at a table with an alpha male like my husband who doesn't have any problem showing his? Sorry, I'm laughing.
Speaker 2:You don't even have the question out of your mouth. Oh, okay, what do I think you choked? I think it's. That is a that's a complicated question to answer, because if it's somebody I already know, I'm probably going to respond different than somebody who I'm meeting for the first time. Like, if it's somebody I'm meeting for the first time and they're giving off a vibe that I don't care for, I'm probably just going to back off. I'll probably just like back off. It's someone like Gary and I already know like how this conversation is probably going to go, I feel free to like interrupt you to get my own two cents in there.
Speaker 1:I know that answers you either.
Speaker 3:No, it doesn't let off, because when your face like lights up like a Christmas tree and you look at it like, oh, let's mess with him, let's just like you are not in that at all. You're like, let's go, let's have it.
Speaker 2:Let's do this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fun, it's fun, all right. Here's my first question for you what is your biggest pet peeve?
Speaker 3:My biggest. It's interesting, I've been asked this question many times and I already know what it is every time and it's related to the question that I just asked you. My biggest pet peeve is when people have negative energy. Oh, yeah, yeah, it's. It rubs me really, really wrong and I have to really watch myself when I'm teaching because students will have their. They'll come into the classroom with really negative energy and I have to try to navigate that and meet them where they are and not take it personally. I am such like a grateful person and I'm a definitely a gratitude person and I have a really hard time with pessimists and that's probably weird to say because I'm also a counselor and I have to also handle personalities who are more pessimistic and I've gotten way better at it. But it's a clear answer for me that when energy walks in the room and it's just really, really negative, I have a hard time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, have you ever found yourself such like trying to put them in their place?
Speaker 3:Oh, I used to do that all the time with students and then.
Speaker 1:I realized like this yeah.
Speaker 3:And I realized this is more about me than it is about them. They don't have a problem with their pessimistic attitude. I'm the one that has the problem with their pessimistic attitude and I had to stop being so like self-centered in many ways, like you know what. Maybe my class isn't for them, maybe college isn't for them, maybe they're being forced to be here, maybe the person that walked in doesn't like the holidays. I just really have to understand that it's not always about my preference, but recognize and put it in check that it is true it's hard for me, but I'm working on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very interesting. I've been in classes where the teacher was very visibly irritated and tried to put the student first, the patients and then when the patient's worth in. Then it was like trying to set expectations for how often you should speak up and when it's time to let the class flow, kind of thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, interesting, okay. So, terry, if you could trade places with someone for the day, who would you choose to trade places with, and why?
Speaker 2:Great question who would I trade places with? Well, it probably wouldn't be because I envy their life. It would probably be because I'd want to learn something like living inside of another person and understanding something from their perspective. So that's probably the angle I would take. So it would have to be somebody that has a skill that I long for, that I struggle with. I would say, I would say like a marketing, like a, because that's where I struggle with this podcast is, you know, getting getting enough people to pay attention to it. So I think the big ones that stand out in my mind are probably ones are going to be familiar to some people. Gary Vee is a big one and I love how he throws the F bond around a lot, because it's like my favorite word lately. And, um, oh, I just had someone else in my head, and who was it? Oh gosh, you know who I want to be? I got it Joe Rogan. I want to, I want to be inside Joe Rogan's head for the day. He's like an amazing.
Speaker 3:Okay, what is it that you love about Joe Rogan?
Speaker 2:You know, I don't know his political leanings and I really honestly don't care what his political leanings are. I've heard people say he's, you know, kind of towards the middle. Maybe that's why I don't want I don't listen to his show all the time but he does show up a lot like in your like news feed or whatever they call that on YouTube when you're watching on the little or the shorter videos the shorts they call him. He shows up a lot in there and he has he has a really um, a really unique perspective on things. And why is? I feel like he's wise and people seem to just love him. So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I would agree After you watch. I've never even heard of it. I've never. I've heard of Joe Rogan, but I've never listened to him yet, so I need to add that to my list.
Speaker 2:You do.
Speaker 3:All right, what's?
Speaker 2:next. All right, here we go. What would your perfect day look like?
Speaker 3:Oh gosh. Well, my perfect day, would I mean immediately. I'd be on the water somewhere. I would be with my favorite people. I would be active. I would be walking. To be honest, I've had lots of really great days this year. I would be walking. I'd be in nature. I would have really good food, like a charcuterie board would be wonderful. You know, immediately I go to just people that I'm comfortable with and there's no posturing or no masking, but it's like your people.
Speaker 3:And you can just be present and you don't have any responsibilities that are on your plate preoccupying you. There's no like um to do list in the back of your mind, like everything is caught up, and so that you can be 100% mindful and present wherever you are, with your loved ones, in nature, by water yeah, that would be it in the sun.
Speaker 1:It'd be a great sunny day and it would be.
Speaker 3:Um gosh. And some great food, that'd be great. A nice glass of wine, not too much, but a nice glass of wine or two. Or some champagne, some bubbly, that would be great. Just to elevate the mood a little bit, but not too much, amanda.
Speaker 2:You know I love that question because I feel like that question is such an easy one as an icebreaker with people you don't know very well. Because, man, what a way to get to know somebody like do you prefer the mountains or do you prefer the beach? You know, it's just like a really easy entry question. And then I find that when you have and Brian loves to ask similar questions to people, because he's one of those that like will throw the questions out there and people just like respond, respond, respond. He doesn't often like say too much, whereas I'm like over here chomping at the bit to like share some experience that we've had, you know. But I think it's a great one to really connect with somebody and find common commonalities. You know that's a great question.
Speaker 3:Actually, I love that you and Brian have talked about that many times, and your, when you vacation and things like that, so I love that. Okay, terry. Do you believe in ghosts or any paranormal activity?
Speaker 2:You know what I so funny? I don't know if you consider this paranormal or not, but maybe you do. I often will find dimes in random places and I always say that my mom left them for me.
Speaker 1:You know like.
Speaker 2:I mean literally when we get home from a trip or something, I will empty out the suitcase entirely, like that's my thing, like I just want to get that bag unpacked right away, get the suitcase put away. And then just recently we went somewhere and I pulled out this. Oh it's when I went to Kansas City to see my daughters I pulled out the suitcase. There was a diamond there. I'm like I know that time was not there and so, yeah, I find them in the weirdest places and sometimes I think Brian plans some. So I'll say, did you put that dime there? And I'll be like no baby, I did not put that dime there.
Speaker 2:As far as like anything like bigger than that, I you know I never rule anything out. I think if there's a possibility, I'm not going to be the one to say I'll listen, I'll be open to hearing about it. I've been to a psychic a few times. I've had my cards read and I've walked away like being kind of impressed with what they said a few times. So I guess I do have some belief in it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know what, now that I asked that question, I knew more than I thought, but the conversation is reminding me. One time we had a great conversation off of 173 in Love's Park and you were talking to me about past life regression.
Speaker 2:Yes, and they said I drowned in a previous life. And it makes kind of sense because I'm really afraid to put my face under the water. When I've talked about this on the podcast, like I have, I get like full blown anxiety and like a little panic attack. When I go snorkeling and I love it, I love it, but when, initially, when I'm in that situation, it feels new every single time and all the times that Brian and I have been snorkeling this last time that we went was the first time he didn't have to hold my hand and like keep constant track of me I was like I'm good dude, I got this like and I actually swam and snorkeled by myself. But but yeah, I, you know, I, I love the water, I love being by it, I love the peacefulness that it brings, and but you want me to put my face in it. That's an entirely different story.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, about that Interesting Okay.
Speaker 2:My turn, right, okay, all right, amanda, you've come across a magic lamp and a genie pops out and grants you three wishes. What?
Speaker 3:are they? Oh, my goodness, this is so exciting. The first thing that came to mind. The first thing that came to mind was enough money in my bank account that I wouldn't have to look at my bank account. I don't need to be like Uber rich, but I would love to have enough money because to me, money equals freedom, and I would love to be able to. And it's almost like that one wish gives me, like the other wishes, but no, not all of them.
Speaker 3:Anyway, yeah, enough money where I didn't have to look in my bank account at things, because then I would have the freedom to really travel as much as I wanted to and take days off when I want to take them, because my work schedule is very, very flexible and I do have the ability. If I had more funds right, number two hands down would be that I would die in my sleep. Huh, why I? Well, I've just, you know, watching my parents die a long, painful death of cancer and watching other people that I care about die and they have to find out that they have a terminal illness and just like, the psychological pain and the toll that that causes on them and their families is really, really difficult. So I would love to you know when I die die in my sleep, and that's just it.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'll question that one. Do you want me to ask you now, or do you want me to wait till you're done with your third one?
Speaker 3:Oh, wait till I'm done with my third one, so you don't plant something. Yeah, yeah, you know what? And I think my third wish would be that all my friends and family that I care about would also die in their sleep and not have a long, painful death.
Speaker 2:Okay. So here's my follow-up question, because I've had this conversation with people before. If you knew you had a terminal illness and only they gave you three months to live let's say so a very short time and there was no possibility of them being wrong would you rather spend that time without your family and friends thinking about oh my God, she's only got three months left and just enjoy the three months and not tell them, or would you want them to know so that they could prepare and say their proper goodbyes to you?
Speaker 3:Well, I went through that with my mom. I mean my mom, you know. They told me that she was. I asked the Palliative Care Doctor, when I found out that she was going to die, how long she had and she said they said three to nine months and she lived exactly nine months. And I absolutely would want to know, and I would want my family to know. I would want all of you know. I would just want to spend as much time as humanly possible.
Speaker 3:I'd want to. I don't want them to, you know, not have to be able to have a part of creating a very meaningful death experience. I have actually seen that hospice care workers and palliative care workers can make it one of the most beautiful things as part of living, like dying is also part of living when you do know it. It's very difficult. It's very, very hard, but it can be done well and I truly believe that and I think that people have. When they have more agency over it, then they can cope with it better and process it better.
Speaker 2:You do realize. You just contradict yourself in your answers, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, because I wanted to die in my sleep.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I didn't even think about it until you were done with your answer.
Speaker 3:But I'm saying that if I, I would love to die in my sleep. But if I, if I had to know that I'm dying, I would ask the question. The question was if you had to know that you're dying, would you want your family and friends to know? Yes, Okay. Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2:That's different. That's different. Okay, your turn.
Speaker 3:All right, okay, okay. What song could you listen to on repeat for the rest of your life?
Speaker 2:Absolutely none, Absolutely none. You know what? It's weird? I'm not a big music person. I never really have been.
Speaker 2:We have like three radio stations down here and I think two of them are Mexican music in one of them's country and I do not like country music at all and I don't understand the Mexican music, so it's not very enjoyable. So when I'm driving back and forth into town to do stuff, I'd rather just be quiet or listen to a podcast. I don't mean that. Even this morning, like one of my favorite things to do when it gets chilly out for some reason, especially around Christmas, is I turn on YouTube and they have like those fake fireplace scenes and we have a pretty big screen TV so it can actually make it feel like you really have a fireplace, just minus the nice warmth of it.
Speaker 2:But this morning I thought, oh it's, you know it's, it's Christmas music season. There is a season between Thanksgiving and Christmas and it's called Christmas music season and I thought, oh, maybe I'll listen to some Christmas music. But I was making a grocery list, thinking about the questions for our talk today, and I thought, no, that's just too much noise, there's too much noise in my head, and I just turned it back to a station that was just playing crackling fire noises, so there is absolutely no song that I would want to listen to on repeat. So does that surprise you at all? Like because I'm wondering if some of these questions like that we're asking each other like deep down, do we really know the answers to some of these questions already?
Speaker 3:Well, it does surprise me because, girl, I have seen you dance to some 80s rock music and that day, when we were on the boat with Anjanette and Brian, when you came here this summer, I mean you were like in your heyday, like you know a sunny day on a, a sunny day on a boat, with some good 80s rock music, and you were loving life. So yeah, it does.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's true, you are right about that. I love dancing. I do love to dance, especially if I've had a glass of wine.
Speaker 1:It brings out the happy wins.
Speaker 3:When you had your wedding, you and your girls and your family and grandma and all the kids were dancing. You were dancing fools, like you were having good times. Yeah, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2:That's kind of a funny answer. Okay, what is the best piece of advice you've ever been given and what is the worst?
Speaker 3:I think, the best piece of advice that I've ever been given. Well, I don't know if I've been given the advice that came to my mind. So let me think about. You know, I read a lot and I do a lot of self development. Well, I know. So.
Speaker 3:My mentor, martha Cooper, when I was in grad school for communications, she told me when it comes to career, choose the option that gives you more options. When it comes to career not relationships, because I couldn't get Harry, but when it comes to career and maybe that's true too, but not in my experience, I don't know but she said when it comes to career, choose the option that gives you more options. So when I was getting another degree, I could have gotten a PhD in communication, but really it kept me in the same field and instead of doing that, I got another master's degree or MSED in clinical mental counseling. So now I have options. If I get tired of you know, I've been teaching 25 years I can retire early if I want to. I'm not stuck in anyone. And I'm not stuck in anyone career, because I have a skill set and I'm tooled up for at least a couple of different careers. So I think that was great advice.
Speaker 2:It is amazing advice.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Worst advice. When I was getting divorced from my first husband, my uncle said we don't get divorced in this family, we stay together, we stay together. Well, I listened to him. I'm glad I didn't listen to him because that was not a good match and I've seen others that are matched and stay together and they're absolutely miserable and their physical health totally wears out and tears them down. And I think my mom was one of them included, even though you know I am glad they stayed together, but I think that she paid a price for it for her mental and her physical health because he was undiagnosed of PTSD with a medic in the Vietnam War. So I think that's horrible advice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it is too. And as a professional mental health counselor, do you think that's wise for the children I mean?
Speaker 1:is it better for the?
Speaker 2:children. I think you know like, yeah, do you have to help your children cope with divorce? On the other hand, I always wonder like wouldn't it be better if they could see an example of a real love, a true love, something that they could aspire to?
Speaker 3:Yes, 100%, and I know people that have left marriages because somebody is an addict and they left the person, and then the person they were married to like died an early death because they never stopped doing drugs at all and you know that's just one example and you know they chose not to have a life sentence with that addiction when they divorced that person and I don't blame them for that, for getting their children out of a situation like that.
Speaker 3:So there's many, that's just one example, but there's many, many reasons. So, yeah, that'd be my answer. Okay, terry, if you would have had a boy instead of four girls, how do you think you would have been as a boy mom, and what would have been some possible names for your boy?
Speaker 2:You know I love the vibe of our weekend podcasts versus our weekday podcasts and I just want the audience to know. You see me in a man to drink some wine. This is my first glass. This is her and I when we start these conversations. So you're getting the real deal here, Okay, well, I do have three.
Speaker 3:You're getting when we go to our Mexico trips and truly, this is just us having fun, being us. We've only had half a glass of wine each because we agreed that we're just starting to loosen up the gears a little bit, but this is literally how our vacation days go for like hours. But go ahead, terry. Absolutely, absolutely If you could have had a boy, yeah.
Speaker 2:I actually have three step sons, so I kind of, you know, I kind of did have some boys, but I think the youngest, braden, was eight when we met. So I've not had a baby boy. I do, however, have two nephews, so I kind of I kind of get the whole vibe. I think I'm a really great girl mom. I don't think I was meant to have boys. I don't get them, I just don't. I'm not, I'm very girly, so I'm not like the tomboy, I'm not even like a tomboy, so I can't like the whole boy vibe.
Speaker 2:Like, even for my, my grandson, finley, brian, usually ends up doing like, most of the like. Playing with him now that he's older, like when he was a baby, was different. Now that he's older, brian does most of the playing. They play like cops and robbers and all this stuff, you know. And Brian always buys his gifts. Because I'm terrible, I'm a terrible gift giver in the first place, but to try to figure out what a boy wants, I'm like I have no idea. I think what's funny is that there's like this, like this false perception that raising boys is so much easier than raising girls. And I have to say, like, if I compare only Brian's children and my, my girls, my girls were so easy at the first part of their life and then they hit the teenage years.
Speaker 2:I see Brian and Brian's middle son listens to this podcast quite a bit. Brian's middle son I love you, hunter which you are the exception to the rule. He is, he, he's a lot of drama for a boy. He's a lot of drama. He proved it at Thanksgiving this year. So if he's listening he knows what I'm talking about. Like he he's like tells these all land just stories that like maybe have like a tenth of truth to them and like 90% bullshit. So yeah, yeah, it's a little bit long.
Speaker 3:Great he needs to meet my husband then.
Speaker 2:Yeah right. So I think you know, like his oldest son, like stoic and just really hard to get him to open up, and same with the younger one, but just in a in a different way. So I loved when my girls were little. I loved the tea parties and, you know, doing crafts with them and I would teach them little dances to perform for our family at Christmas time and I love teaching them to bake and just like everything that went with being a girl mom. So I definitely think God knew what he was doing when he made me a girl mom. But if, if Madeline, who I kind of thought was going to be a boy, my last, my last daughter, we were going to name her Harrison because my, my married name at the time was Ford, harrison Ford, I don't know. I don't know if we would have went through with that, but it was. It was funny to talk about yeah.
Speaker 3:Never knew that. I never knew that.
Speaker 2:Okay, so this one I kind of like put on my list and took it off and put it back on here again. But what change have you experienced in life that taught you the most lessons, or that maybe, like the deepest lesson, most stick worthy lesson?
Speaker 3:Well, I would have to say, it's my parents passing away within four months of each other. So the lesson is this it is possible to get through excruciating pain and find meaning and purpose and forge a life and not be debilitated by it. It's hard, it's difficult, it's hard to find time, but it is possible if you allow yourself to grieve but then also get back in the game and start living again. Our loved ones don't want us to stop living.
Speaker 3:Our loved ones absolutely do not want us to stop living. So the absolute best way that I can enter my parents' legacy is by continuing to live a full, rich life. My parents I can hear their voices in my head. My dad would be, like buck up, it's time to buck up. And then my mom she would I mean I can literally hear her voice She'd be like it's okay, amanda, you're going to be okay. She was more soothing. She was more soothing, but yeah, it's possible to get through excruciating experiences and still live a happy, full life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you gave me goosebumps. You gave me goosebumps, you gave me all the feels.
Speaker 3:Carrie, do you have any recurring dreams or nightmares? Reoccurring dreams or nightmares?
Speaker 2:I do, and it's funny because Brian does too and I think they're anxiety driven, like kids are like always that water's coming into the house, the house is flooding, and now I say that's because he feels overwhelmed with the house building, and by and do, we've been building houses for like five years in a row. So for me, mine is always someone's hurting me, sometimes physically, but usually always physically and emotionally. It's always something's being taken from me. It's can be different scenarios, but it's usually the same, like a betrayal or hurt, like you know, like that kind of thing it's not fun to wake up from. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And you wake up and does it feel super real, like you have to jolt yourself out of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and like you don't want to fall back to sleep because you don't want to keep dreaming it, because you know you have those dreams where you wake up and you're like, oh, that guy was really hot, can I go back to sleep? Yeah, you don't want to go. You don't want to go back to sleep after you have those kind of dreams Like you feel like your heart's beating fast and like you know like you're, you know like you're a little sweaty and clammy and just like shoo. Thank God that was just a dream, kind of thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And that makes a lot of sense with. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense with like, um, you know some of the big pains that I know about you in your life, so, okay, You're next we're going to.
Speaker 2:We're going to have to do a podcast on. We keep talking about it, but we need to do a podcast on attachment styles. Oh yes, definitely Okay, Um, let's see I kind of skipped over a couple. Let me go back and look here. What would be the first thing you would do if you won the lottery?
Speaker 3:First thing I would do if I won the lottery. You know, I would love to say that I would do something really charitable, but no, I'm going to say the first thing that came to my mind. I would buy a house, um, my dream house that I've always wanted. It would have a swimming pool in the backyard. It would be, um, it have like one of those fount of water feature with like a fountain, so that when I have anxiety I can feel the and hear the water trickling.
Speaker 1:It would have.
Speaker 3:It would have like a separate structure in the backyard and that structure would be for my, my clients, because I would love to have um Gary, and I had been talking about this for a while, but I would love to have my um like a casita, if you will, if you're in Arizona, or a mother in law suite, if you're in Illinois or Wisconsin or whatever, but a beautiful, like, like counseling office that has a very like natural, zen, asian vibe, if you will, with like natural ones and neutral colors and, you know, really just like a spa feel to it. Um, it would be a ranch so that Gary and I can age and we don't have to do any stairs. Um, we would be able to walk out into the pool and it would be a place where we didn't have to escape, like a place where all of our friends and family would come over and they would look forward to coming over and it would just be like a retreat at our home.
Speaker 2:Hmm, here's my question, my follow up question to that Do I get to decorate this house?
Speaker 3:Uh, absolutely, I already talked about that Awesome. All right.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 3:Terry, um what is your favorite memory of us?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, this is hard. There's so many.
Speaker 3:Well, you can just go with what comes up, because I'm just kind of going with what comes up.
Speaker 2:But yeah, first thoughts, first thoughts for book club. For some reason, I think you know like we were both unhappily married and I think you know a lot of the women didn't always want to hear that, because it feels scary to other married women to hear people that are their close friends like are struggling with that, and so I think you and I kind of bonded over that struggle of what it feels like to be in an unhappy relationship and want to get out of it but feeling like you're stuck in some ways, and that was so. The interesting part that we don't talk about too much when it comes to our friendship is we didn't start off being as close as we are now. It took some time for us to build up to the level of friendship we have now, and I think that's kind of the beautiful part about it in some ways, because it was just like a you know, a very slow, slow growing, if I can use my words like a crock pot instead of being on an open flame. You know, it's like we took a lot of time to build on the relationship and it was.
Speaker 2:The really funny part is that we didn't even become as close as we could have been when we lived close to each other. It was not until I moved to Arizona that we really made a huge effort. Like I remember when I would travel for work and I would go to Madison, wisconsin, and you came up there to see me and I would come down to Illinois and see you and we just started making our friendship such a huge priority. And you know, I we always say this and it's just so frickin true is, no matter how mundane your day is or maybe you even had a great day, maybe you had a crap day like just talking to each other and connecting always makes us feel just on a whole new level. It always brings everything up to a whole new level.
Speaker 3:It's unexplainable. I've never had a friendship like this where I feel like I'm healthier when we get off the phone. It's so bizarre. You know, I, my sister-in-law, have a similar relationship and it's weird. My sister-in-law was telling Gary and I the other day she goes. She said there's givers and there's takers in the world.
Speaker 2:And she goes.
Speaker 3:I just want to be around givers and I want to raise children who are givers. I don't want to be around takers. And every time, terry, every time we have a conversation, I feel like I've just got some sort of like. Whether it's peace, whether it's serenity, whether it's perspective or clarity or just an opportunity to vent, I just feel better after every conversation and it's very unexplainable.
Speaker 2:It is, and I feel like you bring out the best in me and sometimes even like I'm surprised by the things that come out of my mouth that I didn't even know were there and you were like I needed to hear that. You know that was, I loved that or, you know, just always felt feeling encouraged after our conversation. So, yeah, that was a very long answer.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's so awesome I love it.
Speaker 2:It's so tempting to say some of our vacation times, you know, but I think it's the everyday things.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love that answer too, because I totally thought you were going to say one of our vacations, but I I couldn't. Yeah, you said it's like a crackpot and not an open flame.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, slow, slow cooking, Is that?
Speaker 3:a fucking ass name. A couple of crackpot ladies.
Speaker 2:Maybe, maybe, all right, what is something that you've learned about yourself that you had a hard time? I had a hard time thinking of the wording of this question, but this is what I really want to know Like, what is something that you've learned about yourself that you're like oh crap, I kind of have to own that, even though it's not always very favorable to own it. Like what, what is that thing?
Speaker 3:I mean it's easy hands down. I've been told this since I was very young my best friends growing up in high school, and a counselor told me this. My husband has told me this. You haven't said it totally, but I've been around about way you've said it. It's hard to have conflicts with me. I can be like a porcupine. Like I can, like my counselor said, like when people come at me with conflict, like it's like a cat arching its back, like I get really defensive, like my first default is to get very, very defensive.
Speaker 3:And that has been a really that is my nemesis is just being able to regulate myself when people are upset with me, and that comes from a trauma background of living with my dad where a lot of times when somebody was upset with you, the next thing that happened was somebody got hit. So I know where it comes from. It comes from a trauma background, but I have a really hard time. I so admired people who are experts at conflict when we had Scott Tillema on the podcast and he was an expert in helping people, helping regulate people when they're upset.
Speaker 3:I was like man. If I could have a superpower, that would be my superpower.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree with that, he was. We learned a lot that day. That was a really great podcast episode. If you haven't listened to that one yet, you know, make sure you go back and listen to that one. I think you know, sometimes the titles of the podcast throw people off a little bit because I'm not the best at naming them. It's not a strength. But yeah, I think you know, one of the things I learned that day from him is you know, if you don't face it head on, it's not like you can ever avoid that. You don't avoid it, you're just deflecting it and you're postponing it for a future date, like it's not going to go away, right, you know conflict sticks. So, yeah, that was a great conversation with him that day. Yeah, really good. We've had really good guests on this podcast. We've been very fortunate.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh, absolutely Okay. What part of your childhood are you nostalgic for?
Speaker 2:I almost feel like there's two different. Like you know they say the Gemini, you know, is like two-faced. Like you know, that whole I don't even know, I can't even like articulate the Gemini, but like just, you know you got one day. You're. This is Brian, right, you and Brian, your birthdays are a day apart. I literally married my husband and, like my best friend, are like almost the same people.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, it could be so super sweet one moment, and then the next moment he's like not mean, but like teasing in a mean way and you're like oh, who are you today? But I feel the same way about my childhood a little bit, because I feel like I've compartmentalized it. You know, there were the years that I can remember where I was so carefree and, you know, lived in a trailer park and was so poor but didn't even really know it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And we just like we had certain areas in the trailer park that we named all the neighborhood kids we named, and you know, one was the field, one was the big woods and one was the tall grass, and we just had such a carefree childhood. I feel so bad for the kids these days, even like my grandson, like he has, he has a pretty good neighborhood so he has a little bit of freedom to move about, but we would like literally leave the house in the morning and be gone all day and we had so much fun.
Speaker 2:We had such, you know just like I said already, carefree childhoods where you know we would be at one person's house for a little bit playing this game and then we decided to play knock, knock, zoom, zoom or run in the woods, or you know we called it the big hill. We would slide down the big hill in the winter and I think you know that was the saving, the saving grace of all the crap that was to come, you know, a little bit later down the line. You know that fighting and the alcohol and the abuse, and so, yeah, I did have a sweet spot in my childhood, before that really started, where I had a lot of fun. I mean, I had a lot of boys in my neighborhood and so it was interesting, you know, having friends that were boys and yet you know being able to be with my girlfriends and play Barbies and all the other stuff. So, yeah, there's definitely a sweet spot in there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you brought so many memories up in my own childhood just listening to you talk. Like we would build snow forts. We didn't have any toys. Like we would just. I mean, I'm sure we had some boys, but like the nature was our toy, like we had spoons and dirt pile like tire swings and bikes and like we were just outside all the time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, very nostalgic for those days. Also, terry, I think that I've heard you talk about like are you, do you get nostalgic for some of the food that you had when you were younger?
Speaker 2:Yeah, my mom, you know, my, my dad was from the south, so Alabama, and my grandma, my mom's mom, they lived in Wisconsin, so she had this sort of like southern meets Midwestern cooking style. And it's funny, I don't cook anything like her, Like my cooking style is very different from hers, but like I do have these dishes from my childhood that you know, every once in a while I pull out and I, like you know, modernize it for the way I cook. But, yeah, and I have these these really good memories of being up on my grandma's farm, my grandma grandpa's farm, and my grandma was a baker. So we had, she had this little spot on the kitchen counter and you would come in and there would always be something like a baked good there that you could, you know, you could grab, and so when I started baking for my daughters I would always tell them they say, oh, mom is so good or whatever.
Speaker 2:I'd say, yeah, it has secret ingredient in it and you know, it's kind of like the joke, like the secret ingredient is love, you know, and I, that's how I felt like I felt like that was my grandma's way of showing us love, was like baking really yummy things for us because her age, her age people, they didn't. My grandma never really like cuddled me or was affectionate with me or said I love you. You know none of that. So I think her, her way of showing affection and showing her family that she cared about them was to like cook really delicious food. So yeah, you're right, I do have those memories as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for all the listeners. I'm sure you're bringing up so many memories of their childhood foods.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, or the Facebook group, and share some of your favorite childhood foods, especially with the holidays here. I mean, I imagine everybody brought their traditional stuff to Thanksgiving and you got your Christmas meal that you're going to be planning. So head over to the Facebook group when you're done listening today and share some of your favorite childhood food memories. It'd be fun to be a part of.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I definitely. I think that would be fun. Okay, so is it your turn.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's my turn, let's see. Oh, I like this question. This is one of my favorites. What is your favorite family tradition? And if you don't have one, what tradition would you like to create in your family?
Speaker 3:Hmm, well, immediately what comes to mind is Noah and I. We watch the elf every year. With what will?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Every year we watch that and it's just kind of our thing. I think that movie is hysterical. We also watch Home Alone. And so those two Christmas movies. And then I heard that the elf is coming out for a limited time in theaters this year. So I asked Noah if he would go watch that with me. Just the two of us, because you know, your 17 year old teenage boy still wants to come watch a movie with you.
Speaker 1:Pretty sweet so yeah, I think it would just be some movie.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, okay, terry, what is the craziest thing that you have ever done?
Speaker 2:This is going to be on camera, on an audio version forever. Let's say what is the craziest thing I've ever done? Oh God, as a teenager, I think, sometimes, because I did have such a home life where you're always like we're so afraid of what. You probably felt this way too. What is going to happen when the next shoe drops? What's happening next?
Speaker 2:That's one of the things with kids that grew up in trauma-filled, abusive homes what's happening next? And so I think, when I did get the freedom to be out, away from them and knew they could not find out, like I could do some wild things, but the craziest thing, oh. So I grew up in a small town 4,000 people, like there wasn't a lot to do there. So, like, take what I'm about to say with a great assault. But we drank, like we were drinkers, like we partied at a young age and there was a house that we could party at the dad. I don't know why the dad let us do this, but he let us party at his house all the time.
Speaker 2:And one night the cops showed up and all my friends well, I don't I want to say all of them, but there were a group of my friends that knew I would get like really, really bad in trouble if I got hauled down the police station and had to be picked up by my mom and stepdad. So they hid me underneath the bed. I mean, I was, I was so drunk, I was drinking lemonade and vodka and I was. I wish I had a size glass to show you, but like a glass, probably like four ounces, I would say I was. I would bet people that I could pick it up with my teeth and down it, and they would pay me money to do it. So that's what I was doing that night. And so when the cops showed up, they shoved me underneath the bed and all the other kids got taken down the police station and I escaped that. So that might have been like the night I pushed it to the limit, but there were probably more to. I'm sure there were more.
Speaker 3:No judge.
Speaker 2:Are you bringing any memories for you?
Speaker 3:Oh, absolutely no judgment at all. That's why I can never smell like peppermint alcohol, peppermint cream to met in the woods when I was 14. I mean when you're in. Wisconsin and some of these rural areas. These kids that's. That was their entertainment. They would just get whatever alcohol their parents had out and they would steal it and they would go have fun in the woods or wherever they were.
Speaker 2:You know, like man dog 20 money was like $2.50 a bottle. You know, like having a hangover on cheap light is the worst.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thank God we were young at that time. Okay, terry, I am going to. Let's do one more question each, because we could keep doing this forever.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:Okay, so this is. This is a. I asked Gary before we started. I said, gary, give me one question to ask Terry, and he wants to know, Terry, what is something that keeps you up at night but you rarely share with other people?
Speaker 2:Hmm, I share almost. Here's the thing. Like, going into today, I thought Amanda's probably gonna have a tougher time than I am, because I tend to. I tend to share with you, I'm I share with you very comfortably more than a lot of people, I would say. So this kind of is going to lead into the question I'm going to ask you next, but like I think all my fears come out in the middle of the night.
Speaker 2:You know, like like my mom, you know when she, before she passed, she was living in a rent controlled senior citizen community apartment building, right, and I know I'm nothing like my mom and I have to remind myself that sometimes, like my mom was very shut herself off and we talked about this a little bit a couple weeks ago, I think, on a podcast episode but like she had the opportunity to become involved in this community that she lived in through podcasts and back yard barbecues. They had this you know deck and like weekly bingo or you know whatever it was, and she, her choice was to stay in her apartment by herself a lot, and I know that's not me, I would not do that Like. I know it's morbid as it sounds when Brian and I talk about like if he were to pass away early. My thought is I'm moving somewhere where there are people close or like minded, like me, like that want to do I love playing games, I love going on shopping trips like I want to be where there's other senior citizen ladies like me that are active and want to do stuff and want to meet new people and want to have friends. I'm super outgoing, like that most of the time.
Speaker 2:So my fears are being alone, like in the middle of the night. I think I think what if something happens to Brian? I don't want to be alone, you know, like I don't want to be my mom, I don't. I don't want to not have friends. I don't want to get so set in my ways that I don't want to change and I think I worry about that.
Speaker 2:And it may be hard to understand for some people. They like why the hell she worried about something that hasn't happened yet. But, like my husband is, his mind said is so much different about his health and mine is I'm very focused on it and he's very nonchalant about it and so and he does have you know pre, he's pre diabetic and hasn't really decided to make those changes yet I'm still hopeful that he will. But you know, I have two friends. One's mom died of diabetes when she was in her late 60s and another friend whose mom is very ill because she has diabetes and she's in her 60s. And I have this, you know, big life imagined for Brian and I after he retires, and I'm fearful that I won't get to experience that, you know. So those are the things I think about in the middle of the night. They're awake.
Speaker 3:That was very very, because we have talked about that a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and my last question for you is going to be you know, what do you fear and so it's a very similar question to the one you asked me is like what is your biggest fear?
Speaker 3:It's interesting because, without doubt, my biggest fear is fear itself. I don't want to be debilitated by fear, and so I really try to be very resilient and accepting. My father once said the only thing in life that you can truly count on is change, and so the people that really do best in life are those that embrace change and those that can can just roll with whatever life throws at them. So it's very clear for me. I have panic disorder, so I've been at the worst of what it feels like to have fear controlling you, and I've done so much work that my goal is that, no matter what happens to me in my life, that I would be able to handle it and take it in stride and still live a very fulfilling, joyful life, despite whatever my circumstances are.
Speaker 2:Love it. You know, I'm so glad we decided to do this episode today. I really hope that, you know, people listening are very encouraged to have some of these meaningful conversations with their girlfriends. You know, maybe if they belong to a book club, this could be like a holiday gathering where everybody comes with some questions to ask the whole group to connect on a deeper level.
Speaker 2:If it's your spouse that you're having a hard time with and you know, I thought I might say that during today's episode about connecting with your spouse on a deeper level and I thought, you know, would people think that was a strange thing to say, because you should be having these everyday conversations with your husband anyway.
Speaker 2:Right, but I know, just in my own life, you know, with the house building going on, I can be sitting next to my husband, you know, at 530 in the morning when we're having our coffee together, and it feels like he could be, you know, five miles away from me because his mind is so much not in our on that couch.
Speaker 2:He is like his body is there but his mind is like five miles away at our property building house, wondering if he should order some things from China instead of, you know, getting him in the office.
Speaker 2:I mean, just like the litany of things that he thinks about keeps him so occupied so much of the time that sometimes I do have to bring him back and say, hey, where are you Like? I want you to be like here with me right now and I feel like you're not. Can you please come back? You know, and so I don't think it's really at all to imagine that in anybody's life having these intimate conversations Some of the answers I gave today, I was wondering what you might say that might freak me out, that I'm like, oh God, I don't want to answer that question, you know. But I think we shouldn't be afraid to shy away from some of these more intimate conversations, and I think for some personalities that's more difficult than it is for others. But that's the challenge I would like to leave our listeners with today is go out there and be brave and ask some questions to make some deeper connections this holiday season.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I would say that, on the other end, when you are the person answering the question, you really get to better know yourself and that's a wonderful part of this, this activity or whatever you want to call it that we did today.
Speaker 3:So I echo that, terry, I am so thankful that we did this today. It is a friends giving to remember for us and I wanted to end this podcast by showing the listeners and I'm so happy that you sent me an ornament today and I have a Christmas ornament and it says congrats on being my bestie, you lucky bitch.
Speaker 2:And it's, it's this website where you can go on and you can make, like, the pictures of the two women and I wish you know, like, if you're not watching this on YouTube, maybe we'll have to try to figure out how to post a picture, maybe over in our Facebook group. But it's like I have the biggest, hugest frizzy hair in this picture and Amanda has like the most beautiful, like beautiful face on it. She looks so good and it was just, it was very fun to buy that for you. I'm so glad that you saw the humor. I know not every woman wants to be called a bitch, but I really enjoyed it and I thought I looked hot.
Speaker 3:I even thought, with my gray hairs and my red shirt, gary, my husband thought I looked hot as well. So great choice, terry, great choice.
Speaker 2:Well, they didn't really have a dark haired woman our age without gray hair. So, oh, there you go. All right, thank you so much for joining us. Bye, bye.
Speaker 3:Bye, bye.
Speaker 2:Amanda, I don't know if this ever happens to you, but I sometimes will learn something really cool on a podcast, on YouTube, video, audio book, whatever. I think I'm going to remember it and then I forget. Does that ever happen to you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I call it brain after 40 all the time.
Speaker 2:But we've come up with something. Do you want to introduce it?
Speaker 3:Sure, it's by. It's from an app called quick Jim quick, and it's an acronym called fast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it stands for Facebook. So we're inviting you officially right now to come over and join us on Facebook. Get involved with the community, share your favorite episodes with your friends on Facebook.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the a is go ahead and take an action, so you can't remember anything if you don't act.
Speaker 2:And, as is for subscribe, make sure you're subscribed to our YouTube channel.
Speaker 3:And then T is teach. Teach what you've learned to somebody else. Share the love.
Speaker 2:All right, we hope that works for you. Thank you for joining us. We'll see you next week.
Speaker 3:Bye, bye.
