A Walk in the Woods: A Journey of Discovery and Personal Growth

Unlock the hidden secrets of your psyche in a journey you'll never forget. Venture with us, alongside our special guest, Tracy Kruse, into the neon-lit forest of our imaginations, where we encounter keys, vases, cups, bears, and more - each symbolic of our deep-seated emotions and perceptions. You will discover as we did, how these symbolic encounters can provide a fascinating insight into our inner self.

As we traverse this forest, we come across walls with various holes – a metaphor for life’s challenges and the ray of hope they bring. These experiences conjure a multitude of emotions and thoughts, and we discuss them candidly, offering a raw insight into our personal lives. We even touch upon conflict management and finding peace, bringing in our personal experiences and reflecting on underestimated abilities.

Join us as we round off our adventure with a powerful reflection on life, death, and the risks in between. Unravel the beautiful moments that come with stepping out of your comfort zone, and how our fears can lead to personal growth. Come, explore the potential for self-discovery and personal growth that lies within you, and take the first step towards understanding yourself better.

A Walk in the Woods Google Doc

CREDIT: https://www.instagram.com/joeyskladany/

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:03

Hello and welcome to what Women Want Today, podcast season three, the Soul Sister series, where we will tackle tough topics straight from our heart to yours. I'm Terri Kellams, your host and coach for women who struggle to find meaning in fulfillment in midlife.

Speaker 2: 0:17

I am Amanda Kieber. I am your new regular contributor. I come straight from the Midwest Rockford Illinois. I'm a public speaking teacher and leadership development professor. I'm also a coach and clinical mental health counselor. I am so thrilled to be here, and let's get started.

Speaker 1: 0:33

Let's do it. Hello and welcome to this week's episode of what Women Want Today podcast. I'm your host, Terri Kellams.

Speaker 3: 0:41

Hey there, I'm your co-host, amanda Kieber, and I'm here with my friend and colleague, tracy Cruz. Hi there, so a little back story. On our morning, terri, I was supposed to train at, I thought, one o'clock at a local company and do some disk profile analysis. Training Turns out I was supposed to be there at 10 and got a Microsoft Teams notification come up on my phone. So, needless to say, I have been pivoting all morning long and go out to get my computer, and my computer is not there. So I'm like, oh, I'll just go to Rock Valley College where I teach, and get on my work computer. Oh, the Microsoft or the operating system crashed. Well, luckily, tracy's my colleague, I'm your host today, so this is our guest, rather. So this is our plan C. Yeah, and now you're in the same room together.

Speaker 1: 1:38

And we've never done it like that before, so this is going to be a different show all the way around. Stay, I'm excited.

Speaker 3: 1:44

Yeah. So I just say you know what. This is a lesson for all women, like when you have to pivot and figure it out. Pivot and figure it out.

Speaker 1: 1:50

Just do it, just do it, oh, like Nike does, just do it.

Speaker 3: 1:54

So let's get started right away. So Tracy is again my colleague and we both teach public speaking courses and leadership development and personal communication. Tracy also has a marketing background and she loves to do like branding type things and we're very like minded in our interest. One of the things that we both really like is psychology and psychological testing and tools, and I know, terry, you love those types of things too, to look at her face. So when I mentioned to Terry that Tracy had this idea about doing this test with us, I was like, oh hell, yeah, sign us up. So I'm going to let Tracy introduce the test and we're going to get right into it. She's just going to ask some questions. She'll tell us what's going to happen.

Speaker 4: 2:40

Right, yeah, so this is a relational psychology test. I'm going to ask you guys some questions and I'm going to try to write down what you're saying and I'll think each of you can answer. Man, if you go first, then Terry, you can go second. It shouldn't impact the way you visualize your answers. We've never done it with two people, but I don't see why it would matter. I've heard this test multiple times and my answer is in my head, never changed. So I think it should be fine. So I can go ahead and get started. You can get into questions and then, once it's over, I'll go back and tell you what those questions mean, and then we can go through the interpretation process together.

Speaker 3: 3:20

Okay. So while you're doing that, one more time for our listeners, tell us what it's called again A walk in the woods. I'm sorry, I don't think I said no.

Speaker 4: 3:27

No, you're going to a walk in the woods? Yes, and you will find similar tests online, but you will not find this one. This one is from a friend from a psychology class at Northwestern, so this one is special, just for us.

Speaker 3: 3:40

Oh, very cool. Hope that friends info in the show notes and that way they can our listeners can research. Sure, All right.

Speaker 4: 3:48

All right. So the only thing that we always ask before we start this sense is that you just clear your brain. You don't have to close your eyes, but just be as descriptive as possible with your answers. And again, I'm going to write. It's a good idea for you to write, and there are no wrong answers. I basically just always ask you just to whatever comes to your mind, just say it and don't hold back. Okay, all right, and I'm going to read off my phone. So, amanda, get seated faster than what it represents. So, no, I'm not cheating at my answers, all right. So, amanda, do you want to go first? Sure, all right. And Cherry, you can listen as well. So you are walking through a forest. What does the forest look like?

Speaker 3: 4:34

Wow, this is so fascinating already because I'm just going to go with the first image Like the forest had colorful trees, almost like starburst, like a package of starburst. So I'm walking through the woods and there's like red trees and pink trees and green trees and yellow trees and like there's all the different, it's almost like a neon forest. Yeah, it's like a neon forest. There's all different colors and it's not typical of what I imagine at all, because I love going to the forest. So the fact that I had such a different like image right away is surprising to me.

Speaker 4: 5:15

Okay, so do you feel? How do you feel? Do you feel calm? Are you at peace? Do you feel scared? Are you lost or do you know what's?

Speaker 3: 5:23

going on. I feel playful. Okay, I feel playful and excited.

Speaker 1: 5:31

Momma, you had the breakfast.

Speaker 4: 5:34

I don't either. It's weird. And Aaron, is there a path? Are you in the middle of the forest or do you know where you're going through all these colors?

Speaker 3: 5:42

No, there's like a path which would be the normal color of, like the sand or like the dirt path that you would see in a normal forest, but like there's tons of yellow leaves on the ground Yellow leaves- Is the path walked on?

Speaker 4: 5:54

Since you said it was made of sand, it may be wonder if there's footprints.

Speaker 3: 5:58

Yeah, no, I didn't see any footprints. It's almost like a magical forest where, like this, is the first time anybody's ever seen a tree in a forest and you're walking through your own forest.

Speaker 4: 6:12

What does your forest look like?

Speaker 1: 6:15

Oh mine. It has lots of really tall trees, but you can just kind of see some dappled sunlight coming through. But for some reason in this forest there are a lot of like dead tree branches, like just lots of, and then on the ground I see lots of dead tree branches as well. So it's very thick and you're going to have to kind of weave in and out of it because there's a lot of fallen branches and there's not a clear path for sure.

Speaker 4: 6:41

Okay, I'm writing this down Interesting. Do you feel calm or do you feel happy? How do you feel in the forest?

Speaker 1: 6:52

I would say a little uncertain, because I can't see the footsteps ahead of me back. Clearly I'm going to have to kind of watch my step as I'm moving through it. Okay, interesting.

Speaker 4: 7:03

All right. So back to Amanda. Amanda, you are walking through this forest, this brightly colored forest. Maybe you're on your sand path, you're the one making the footprints and you come across the key. Okay, what does the key look?

Speaker 3: 7:20

like the key is silver and it's really big, like how big, like the size. I'm going to do it with my hands, so I'm going to say like a life size key which would be like the size as tall as a banana. Wow, okay.

Speaker 4: 7:36

It's a bigger key. It's a really big key. Okay, and does this key have value?

Speaker 3: 7:41

Yeah, there's like some sort of treasure, and I'm not sure what the treasure is, but it's like there's some sort of journey that I'm taking. There's a journey that I'm taking and this key is if I keep exploring, this key is going to have the answer.

Speaker 4: 7:59

Oh, my goodness, okay, very cool. Do you pick up the key and take it with you or do you leave it behind? I take it with me, okay. Okay and Teri, you are walking through your forest, these tall trees, but there's sunlight coming through. There's some dead branches up in front of you, but you're weaving through and you're fine, and you come across the key as well. What does your key look like?

Speaker 1: 8:27

Mine's gold and mine like rounded but like an oblong shape, and then obviously the little jagged things for the keys and it's not an old key but it's not a brand new one either, because I can see that there are some combination of letters and numbers on it, so kind of antiquey maybe.

Speaker 4: 8:47

I wouldn't say antiquey, I would just say like yeah, okay, and do you find a key of value?

Speaker 1: 8:56

Well, I'm just kind of wondering like someone must have dropped this. I need to pick it up and, like, take it with me, in case I find someone ahead of me on the path that maybe needs it.

Speaker 4: 9:05

Okay, very interesting, all right, so you're going to pick it up and take it with you. All right, very cool, all right. So we are continuing to walk through our forest and we found our key. And now we keep walking and we come across a vase. Okay, amanda, what does this vase look like?

Speaker 3: 9:30

The vase is white, like a cream color, and it's got like oriental trees, something like that you would see in an Asian restaurant. Okay, yeah, the vase is definitely giving me like Asian vibes. Okay, is it clean? Is it dirty? Is it intact? It's intact, it's clean and it's like one of those like kind of lacquered shiny, shiny.

Speaker 4: 9:58

Yeah, shiny. So do you think it has value to you? Like, do you want to take it with you or are you going?

Speaker 3: 10:06

to. I think it's weird because it's like doesn't it's not meshing with the vibe of the forest and I'm like this is so odd because it almost feels like displaced in the forest and I'm so curious what the hell is going on with the space.

Speaker 4: 10:19

Okay, so you're going to leave it.

Speaker 3: 10:24

I'm probably going to take a picture of it and just keep going, okay.

Speaker 1: 10:29

I'm going to post it on Facebook. Oh yeah, I guess.

Speaker 4: 10:33

On my walk, all right. So, teri, you are still walking through your forest and you also come across a vase after taking the key with you. What does your vase look like?

Speaker 1: 10:47

A mind's glass, as you can see through it, and it's got a wide mouth, but then it gets skinny and gets real fat again at the bottom and there are some really beautiful dried flowers in there. It's clean, I can see through it. It's very beautiful, but seems in a place.

Speaker 4: 11:08

Do you take it with you on your walk through this forest?

Speaker 1: 11:10

Yeah, because I can see that sitting on my shelf in my office, right beside me.

Speaker 4: 11:18

You're going to take it with you and it's going to become one of your artifacts. Yes, all right, so it sounds important. All right, so we are continuing on this path in our forest, amanda, and you've come across the key, you've come across the vase and now you've come across the cup. Okay, what does the cup look like?

Speaker 3: 11:43

The cup is just like one of those basic pink cups that little toddlers use, with the white twisty thing on it and then the two handles on the side.

Speaker 4: 11:53

Okay, and do you think the cup has any value?

Speaker 3: 11:59

I just think the cup reminds me of my grandson Gideon, and it makes me smile. And then I think about him and wonder what he's up to today besides drinking milk.

Speaker 4: 12:10

Okay, and is there anything inside the cup? Just water, just water. Is the water clean? Yes, okay, and do you take the cup with you?

Speaker 3: 12:21

Yeah, that's Gideon's cup.

Speaker 4: 12:23

I'm gonna make sure he gets a bet, so it's important to Gideon.

Speaker 3: 12:26

Yes, all right.

Speaker 4: 12:31

And Teri, you are also walking and you take this vase with you and you keep going and you also come across a cup. What does your cup look like?

Speaker 1: 12:41

Mine's white. It's kind of short, probably, maybe like 12 ounces in size, and it's got some kind of sports team emblem on it. It's like a maroon color. I can't really picture or take away what sports team it is, but I can tell it's definitely some athletic type thing, like something you can get free, maybe, or maybe like with your drink unit at a sporting event and it's dirty, it's gross, I don't want to touch it.

Speaker 4: 13:05

Okay, so it does. Does it have value?

Speaker 1: 13:07

No, it probably shouldn't be laying on the floor of the forest. Someone checked out in the trash instead, but I'm not picking it up.

Speaker 4: 13:17

You're a notch and do you so. You're not picking it up, You're not taking it with you.

Speaker 1: 13:21

All righty.

Speaker 4: 13:29

Taking lots of notes here, so we're going on to page two. All right, so we've come across the key, we've come across the vase, we've come across the cup. Some of us have taken it, some of us have left behind. And you were walking through this brightly colored forest and you approach a bear. Okay, what do you do?

Speaker 3: 13:51

I immediately went to like a story, like a children's story. Okay, like with the Goldilocks and the three bears, is that Sure Gold? So I'm going to like again. I'm. Everything in this forest is so childlike to me. It's so this bear is not scary at all. It's like almost like a, like just a friendly old bear, that's like. But yeah, okay.

Speaker 4: 14:17

It's perfectly fine. Let's see, I lost my spot here. So you don't feel the need. You don't feel frightened by the bear, you don't feel the need to confront it? No, okay, all right Now. So you and the bear are going to chill out in your forest. Terry, you come across your own bear.

Speaker 1: 14:35

What do you do? Well, I get big, Like I make myself as big as possible and fill up as much space as I can, and then I stand very still and I don't look him directly in the eye, but I don't. I try not to be afraid I'm. I'm very calmly trying to remind myself to breathe because he could just lose interest and work away. But if I panic, he's scary.

Speaker 4: 15:00

Okay, and so do you confront it head on, or you just remain in that still position.

Speaker 1: 15:05

I'm just going to remain in the still position, but you know I'm I'm going to take a stance, take a stance.

Speaker 4: 15:10

Yeah, all right. All right, you're both on a danger. The bear is gone, thank goodness. So you keep walking and you're going through this forest and you come across a body of water. What does your body of water look like?

Speaker 3: 15:31

My body of water is crystal clear, like the most beautiful water you could ever imagine.

Speaker 4: 15:37

Okay, and is it? Is it big Like? Is it a lake? Does it have waves? Is it?

Speaker 3: 15:46

a it's more like a stream, like I'm imagining a stream like a creek, yeah, like a creek Can?

Speaker 4: 15:53

you see to the bottom? Nope.

Speaker 3: 15:58

You can't see to the bottom, it's just very, very clear. And I'm imagining, like I'm imagining myself in a like a little kayak boat, like just relaxing, like looking up at the sky.

Speaker 4: 16:10

Okay, can you get across to the other side?

Speaker 3: 16:14

I could if I wanted, okay, but I don't in my visual. It's more like I'm not looking at the other side.

Speaker 4: 16:19

I'm looking like downstream, all right, and Teri you, you stood still in the bear went away. But you come across this body of water. And what does your body of water look like?

Speaker 1: 16:36

Mine's like a really flowing stream. I mean not extreme like you couldn't do like white water, rafting, that extreme but like making that trickling noise and you can definitely, you could definitely go to the other side. It's not that wide, I would say maybe 50 feet wide, and there are definitely like rocks piled in certain places so you can kind of see like a little water crashing over the rocks. I could probably even like use those rocks to climb across. The water's not clear, but I can tell it's not deep. Okay, very peaceful.

Speaker 4: 17:09

Okay, so you can get to the other side. You're going to use maybe some of those rocks, all right? Well, all right. So, aniade, you're on your kayak, you're looking downstream, but you do get across to the other side and you're going to keep walking through these woods. And you're walking. You approach a wall. Okay, what does that wall look like to you?

Speaker 3: 17:31

Okay, my mind went straight to Game of Thrones and the White Walkers. So it was like everything was so playful and childlike. And then I get to this other side and it's like, oh, there's more to reality than this playful stuff.

Speaker 4: 17:51

That's wild. I'm just I'm going to put White Walkers and I think you will know how to interpret that, because I, everyone says, watch Game of Thrones and I just never got into it, but anyways, alright. So do you feel like that wall is meant to be there, or does it feel out of place? What do you feel when you see that wall? What emotions do you have?

Speaker 3: 18:14

I feel almost like it's a loss of innocence, like, oh yeah, there's like reality, realities over there, like you can be in my forest and escape it, but like ultimately there are White Walkers and there's, this is a reality.

Speaker 4: 18:33

So yeah, like you can't escape White Walkers. Is that part of Game of Thrones? Um, probably die.

Speaker 3: 18:39

Yeah, then they. You can't escape them. They're there, they're there, okay, no matter what, they're there.

Speaker 4: 18:44

Well, that's a bummer Alright, so um is the wall tall.

Speaker 3: 18:51

Very tall, very tall, like no human being could scale it.

Speaker 4: 18:54

Oh, okay, yeah, alright, interesting, that wall is tall, alright. And uh, tiri, you made it across your stream, you jumped some rocks, you made it over there and you also come across a wall. And what does your wall look like?

Speaker 1: 19:07

My wall is like pristine White. It's like so white in comparison to everything around it that it's like you can tell obviously not supposed to be there and it's very tall, Like you can look up and it's like feels like it's going up in the sky forever. So you definitely could not scale it for sure, and it feels daunting, Like oh great, Now there's this wall. I gotta figure out, you know.

Speaker 4: 19:34

Okay, um, alright. And you, how do you feel? Like just overwhelmed, yeah, sort of um, you say, daunting, so that's the one thing, yeah, alright. So, uh, amanda, you're back to your wall, um, this very, very tall wall, but you're, you're still kind of going down the wall. You're, maybe you're running your hand across this very tall wall, um, so you're scaling it and you come across a hole. Okay, what's inside the hole? What do you?

Speaker 3: 20:04

see, I'm like, oh my God, holy shit, maybe there is a way to escape. And I just didn't see it because I let my emotions of dread overtake me. But now there's hope. Maybe I can get through this hole.

Speaker 4: 20:21

Okay. Um, when you look through that hole, you said you feel hope. So do you want to be there? How does it make you feel yeah?

Speaker 3: 20:30

I want to either go back to the beautiful rainbow or forest or I want to at least know that I can get through this barrier here, and that gives me hope Cool.

Speaker 4: 20:45

I'm ready. And Terry, you um uh are also scaling your wall, this very white, pristine wall, and you also come across a hole. And what do you see inside that hole?

Speaker 1: 21:00

At the other side. Yes, yeah, the other side. I can see that I could climb through it and it's, but it's really jagged. I'm probably going to get my arms and legs all scraped up if I climb through it, but if I get to the other side I'm going to be okay. It's not going to hurt for a long time, it's just temporary.

Speaker 4: 21:19

Just temporary, okay. So, and me, and I might come back and ask you this too you see the other side, but what? What is the other side? Is it more woods? Is it nothing? What do you see through that hole?

Speaker 1: 21:32

Hmm, I don't see anything. I just can tell I'm not in the woods, it's not the woods anymore, but I can't really see what it is.

Speaker 4: 21:43

And Amanda, let's go back and ask you that question too. You said it feels like hope and you can either go back to the beginning of your forest or it's kind of like a hopeful look through. But what do you? What do you see? What do you visualize?

Speaker 3: 21:57

It's like everything turned white, so it was like rainbow on the other side and then through on the other side. It's like all white, like almost like, and the most beautiful snow cap day, when you have that fresh snow and like the trees are happy with snow. It's like that beautiful snow and everything's white Okay.

Speaker 4: 22:18

All right, cool. All right, we've made it through the forest. Oh, you did it. Oh, thank goodness, all right, so, uh, it was fascinating.

Speaker 1: 22:28

Yeah, it was good fun.

Speaker 4: 22:30

Some of the answers I really would like I got. Oh, I've got chills, so, but I'm really going to need your help with interpretation because, yeah, obviously this is about you guys. Yeah, all right. So the point of this test is to let you know how you feel about certain things in this very moment, not overall is like a blanket statement, but just where you are now. And what's cool about that to me? What I took this test is I can go, huh, okay, maybe I should unpack that more, or maybe I need to, you know, work on that more, or wow, that's really right on. So I think this test gives you a chance to better yourself or figure yourself out a little bit more.

Speaker 3: 23:10

So I want to pause right there for just a second. If you're listening to this, I and you want to not have the results like spoil your experience of this. I would say go back, re-listen and then write down and imagine all of your answers and then go back and then press play and listen to the interpretation.

Speaker 1: 23:28

Just plant.

Speaker 4: 23:30

All right. So, amanda, you were in this forest and you said it was really colorful. It was not typical of what you expected, but you were really happy. And then you felt it was playful, it was exciting. There was a path and nobody had really walked on it, but you were ready to walk on it, terri. You said there was tall trees, but there was sunlight coming through some of the branches. When you looked up, there was some dead branches and there was also some dead branches debris on your path. There was a path, but the path was not clear. It felt uncertain because you couldn't see footsteps. So the forest is how you view your life right now oh, wow. So, amanda, your life is not typical, but it's really colorful and your life makes you happy, you're excited about it and there is a path. Okay, does that seem accurate?

Speaker 3: 24:32

It seems very accurate. I was literally just on my waff thinking about how I've done some growth in my life without needing other people's affirmation like I used to. Okay, and I think that's the path. Is I finally create for myself? Yeah, there's no other footsteps on your path. Yeah, like I'm literally like creating for myself, not for anybody else's affirmation. I'm like I'm doing things where I feel like, oh my gosh, I feel alive. When I'm doing that, I don't have to have anybody's approval. It feels like freedom for the first time.

Speaker 4: 25:07

Good, yeah, I agree, you had tall trees, but there was sunlight coming through. There was some dead branches up top and down below and the path felt uncertain. Does that feel you know what?

Speaker 1: 25:22

Yeah. So I'm going to look right now. What's that? I've been writing a book right now, okay, and it's. The path is not clear. But I know that there are steps in place, but I just don't know what they are yet. Like it's a whole program to write this book, sure, and then you know I have a coach that's helping me write the book and they tell you all the time like don't go far ahead, like stay right where you're at, because it'll all make sense in time, you know. So the sun makes me think that because I love sunlight so much, like I can see the sunlight, I know that there's, it's not darkness. I know that there's good, you know, I feel like there's good, but I still feel so uncertain because I'm doing something that's so brand new to me and it's taking me a little bit out of my comfort zone, because I typically like to do things that I know I'm going to be good at.

Speaker 4: 26:19

And yeah, I guess that's what I got out of that? Those, those branches that you see, are hurdles that you've come, you know, going over, or there's ones that are going to be, yes, the future, but that's exactly what I was wondering, like what, what do the dead branches represent?

Speaker 3: 26:36

Yeah, so hurdles make sense. Yeah, it does, all right.

Speaker 4: 26:40

All right. So you both walked through the forest and you both came across a key. Amanda, you said that your key was silver. It was big, it was life-sized, it had value. You treasured it. You're not sure what the journey is, but you are ready to be on that journey. That's what represented. That's what represented Harry. Your key was gold. It was rounded, it was old, but it was not new. It had value and you took it with you. The key represents your view on education. So, amanda, you said it had value and it was a journey you wouldn't. You weren't sure where it was going to bring you, but you were ready to be on that journey.

Speaker 3: 27:29

I mean truly, that's literally when I think about education. It is a journey of self-discovery. Like you don't really even know what I say this all the time, like you aren't going to know the full impact of your education until maybe even years later the seeds are planted, you are growing, you're adapting, you're changing and you don't even realize it yet. But the path is the right path and it's going to open more doors.

Speaker 4: 27:58

And Terry, you said your key was gold. It was rounded, not new, but it had value and you took it Wimbio.

Speaker 1: 28:06

Interesting. So You're like I'm like you know the the um more scope. Gemini is like like what did they call it? Two face? Like you have two very um, strong opinions about it, right, yeah. So I value and respect education. I love to learn. However, I feel sometimes like not everybody is meant to get a formal education. There are people who can thrive by you know more of a? Um technical path, or you know blue collar work I'll just call it blue collar work because that just comes up with a visual. So I guess I'm very torn on that one. So it's not new, it's not old, um, because I can see value in both you know what I mean.

Speaker 4: 28:48

You said, yeah, that made it totally sense. I think that's great. Yeah, all right. So, and you, you take it with you, Um, and then you guys both come across a base. Amanda, you said your base was white kind of cream. Um, it had some Asian vibes with the trees, it was clean, it was shiny, um, but it didn't mesh with the forest, but you wanted to take a picture of it. So I think that means that you have value and you treasure it and you want to show it off. That's what I got. Yeah, Um, terry, your base was glassed.

Speaker 4: 29:18

You can see through it. It's a skinny, uh, and it has dried flowers. So I think when I think of dried flowers, I think of my parents wedding bouquet. So to me, dried flowers are super beautiful. Um, it seems out of place and you're taking it with you. So that tells me that it has value and the base is your view on marriage. So, oh, what, amanda? Yours didn't mesh, but you valued it and you take a picture of it and you want to show it off. And then you filled your base up with something and you, it's, it's clear, um, and you take it with you. We read by one more time. So I wrote that it's, it's cream, it has trees. Well, how he said, I had like an Asian vibe. It's intact, it's clean, it's shiny, but it doesn't mesh with like all the colorfulness of the forest. Yeah, but I don't know. And but you take a picture of it and you want to show it off on face.

Speaker 3: 30:18

It's literally like the description of my marriage. It's such a mismatch Like I feel that I'm super proud of my marriage. Um, we have worked so hard to get to where we are but, like anybody that knows the two of us knows that we are so different. Um, and yeah, it's like, sometimes it's like what, like well, how, you're right, but then other times it makes like so sense, um, so much sense, and um, the words, um, intact, it's intact, it's clean, shiny, not mashing With the forest, with the forest. So, yeah, like, sometimes like it's I don't know. I just feel like we're very different in many different ways. This is what I thought of too.

Speaker 4: 31:02

When you said Asian vibes and you said the trees, I was thinking of a bonsai tree, uh-huh, that you have to keep grooming and growing, grooming and growing. You have to take really good Arabic and not as well on your face, yeah.

Speaker 3: 31:14

And I do think now that you say that it is really weird, because Gary proposed to me seven years ago on the 25th, which was this weekend, and we went out to an Asian restaurant and had like the best dinner, like one of the best dinners I've had in a long time. And as soon as you asked me that question, I was thinking about the Asian restaurant and our date.

Speaker 4: 31:39

So deep down you know that vase is. That's the only thing I know. That All right. And Terry, your vase is glass, it's see-through, it's skinny. You put beautiful to me, beautiful dried flowers, at least that's what I see. But again, it's your interpretation. It seems out of place but it has value and you're going to take it with you and put it on display.

Speaker 1: 31:58

Hmm, the tough one I want to say glass feels like I'm saying it's fragile.

Speaker 1: 32:04

Oh yeah yeah, I didn't think about that. Or could it just mean that it's transparent? But I don't Both. Yeah, I feel like I don't know about this one. I don't understand what the flowers are all about.

Speaker 1: 32:19

Well, I love flowers and I do like, sometimes, when he buys me them, I will dry them and, like display them. I actually have someone behind me. You probably can't see them. But, yeah, this is a tough one for me. Maybe I'm thinking fragile today because we had a, and maybe I'm being transparent right now too, but we had a discussion this morning about something that I just didn't sit well with me, and not like a fight, but like a really like discussion about something very important to both of us, and we did not agree, like we were on totally different sides of the coin. So maybe the fragility is peace for me. I like things to be at peace all the time, and when we're not on the same page about something, it feels a little fragile, yeah, and maybe that makes sense, because this is supposed to be just how you view this today.

Speaker 4: 33:14

Yeah, right, Maybe it'll change tomorrow, maybe it'll change in a year. Yeah, yeah, all right. So we took the vase. When you took a picture of it, you put it on display. I mean, can I go back one second? Sure, sure.

Speaker 1: 33:32

I think the flowers. I think the flowers are. They still believe it's beautiful, like our relationship, our marriage, our life. I think that I still think it's beautiful, even if it can be fragile sometimes. The peace OK.

Speaker 4: 33:46

Flowers there at the bottom of the vase. Yeah, ok, so the bottom, the foundation of the vase. There you go.

Speaker 1: 33:53

I like it.

Speaker 4: 33:54

I love for interpretation. Yeah, all right. So then, amanda, you come across the cup and it's a toddler's cup. Yeah, it's pink. It has value because it's Gideon's. There's water inside of it and you're going to take it with you because you need to get it back to him. Yeah, terry, yours is white and short, about 12 ounces. It looks like one of those free cups that you can get at an athletic event. There's a logo on there, but you're not quite sure when it is. It's dirty. You don't want to touch it and you are not taking it with you. The cup represents your views on religion. So lengthy because you are, but I don't know what that holds for. You know that's so funny. So yours is a toddler cup.

Speaker 3: 34:41

Oh guys, I could not represent me better because my, my spiritual and religious growth, I feel like, is about the same as a toddler Focus Like I have. I have so many questions but I'm so curious and who asks more questions, so it's a toddler. Yeah, and, and. And Gideon was named out of the Bible and his parents. When you fed Gideon I was like, yeah, yeah, and his parents, paxton and Doug, are very developed in their religious understanding and conviction, so it kind of represents the spectrum there. Sure, yeah, fascinating, ok.

Speaker 4: 35:23

And Terry, your cup is, I have to because I said it was dirty. It's all wanted. You don't want to touch it, you don't want anything to do with it and you are not taking it with you and I'm cracking up because I know Terry's beliefs on, on religion I know, and I kind of want to take a pass on it, because I usually don't yeah.

Speaker 1: 35:40

So I think I'll take a pass on this one. You get a pass.

Speaker 4: 35:44

Good, 100%, all right. So you guys take your. You don't take your cup, you're getting your cut back to getting it. And then you guys came across the bear and your bear. You were. It was not intimidating for you, it was like a childlike. You even get all that. You were not scared. Your bear was big, you were still. You did not want to make eye contact, but you remained calm. You did not confront, but you still took a stance. This is how you deal with conflict. Ha ha, ha, ha ha.

Speaker 1: 36:18

Oh, you're so afraid. That's a little scary.

Speaker 4: 36:21

It's a fun little good one, so you're not scared of conflict, oh God that couldn't be.

Speaker 3: 36:26

Oh, that couldn't be more awesome. Well, I know, no, no, I know, if I knew that represented conflict, I'd be like that bears ugly. Oh, no, that bear bears, yeah, so that one, that one, how long? For? I literally just talked about how to manage conflict and training today, and I have been learning some tools that have been game changers for me, and we were talking about it at a local corporation, about how they could apply it, and one of the things that we talked about is using mirroring as a technique in conflict, and it became so much less scary when I was talking about it. In that moment, I thought me and if I would just apply these, these skills more and we could all apply them and we'd all talked about that that our outcomes would be so much better.

Speaker 4: 37:15

See, now, when you said this in my head I go. That makes so much sense because I hate conflict, and when I think of somebody who can handle conflict well, I can give you, I'm like Amanda's going to go to bat for me. She is always calm, she has no problem telling somebody that she disagrees with them, and she does it with such confidence. So to me it means little stuff.

Speaker 3: 37:34

So now that you say that and I know how I've done that for you and in our situations I need to give myself some more credit, because I don't see myself that way at all. Yeah.

Speaker 4: 37:43

And maybe it's because I'm the one giving you tests in this moment. I don't know, but I totally see that out of you.

Speaker 3: 37:49

But I'm thinking about things that I have done, now that you said that in our relationship and in our career, and I'm like, oh, maybe I do handle it better than I think, but the two in me, the Enneagram two is I always want to be liked, right.

Speaker 1: 38:03

But then we talked about this, yeah, and we've talked about this before because your work self can be much different from your home self, because I've seen you in conflict in your home self and I think you handle it well, but I always end up thinking I couldn't do what she just did. So you know like you're, so you let it just kind of flow over you. You don't get too excited about it, you don't. And when you've had conflict I'm trying not to give away your personal life here, but when you've had conflict that lasted for days, it seems like you're able to just kind of like move on with life where it's for me, it like stops me in my tracks. The bear stops me in my tracks.

Speaker 3: 38:47

Interesting. This is fascinating. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: 38:51

See, I deal with conflict, like Terry and I. All right, so the bear. Now we've come across the body of water. Amanda, your body of water is crystal clear. It's beautiful. It's an ever flowing stream. You can't see to the bottom, but it's very relaxing. You couldn't get across it if you wanted to. Right, terry, yours is a flowing stream. You can hear that trickling noise, which I think of as always being very relaxing. You can see the sea to the other side and, if you want, you can get across. You're going to use those rocks to help you get across, and this body of water represents your friendships in life right now. Oh, look, look, look, look. So your friendships are beautiful, ever flowing, so stuff's always going through. You can't cease to the bottom, cause maybe you're always letting new people into your life, or open to letting new people into your life. You always feel relaxed and if you wanted to, you could get to the other side, cause you're at your kayak.

Speaker 3: 40:03

So this is an area I've done a lot of work on in the last couple of years and I have had to shed some of those relationships in my life that we weren't serving each other anymore on both ends, and I feel so much more clarity and peace around the friendships that I have left standing and I'm crystal clear about what I'm looking for and I'm, for the first time in my life, actually open to new friendships where always in the past I think I've told Terry this before is like I don't need any friends, like I don't even want any more friends, because friends to me came with a lot of pain. And now I feel like I'm in such a healthy place where I feel like and know what I'm looking for. I know what good, healthy friendships feel like and for the first time I'm, like, open to the possibility. So that makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 4: 40:58

Yep, good All right and yours was a flowing stream. You could hear the trickling and you could get across it by going on the rocks if you wanted to.

Speaker 1: 41:08

I am so clueless on this one I can't even.

Speaker 4: 41:11

So do you have like for me what I think of cause? In my hand I also have a stream that's flowing. That's very relaxing. I can see to the bottom. I see stones and if I want to get across, I'm also going to use the rocks. So when I think of me getting across on those rocks is how much I lean on my girlfriends. My friends are so important to me. They are my rocks and if I need to get somewhere I call on them. So those rocks are super important to me to help me move forward, get to the next step, find whatever is on the other side. So is that maybe something?

Speaker 1: 41:49

I could see that. I think even in the last like few days I've seen how I could reach out and lean on somebody when I need to. So yeah, I could see that.

Speaker 4: 42:01

That's interesting. All right and you get across to your body of watering. You both came across a wall. Amanda, you said white walkers, A lot in a sense, reality. It's there and it's very tall and I put a sad face because when you were talking about it, just kind of I literally had a shift in my state and my mood, Like I felt it.

Speaker 3: 42:25

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 42:26

Terry, your wall was white and pristine. It's tall, it feels overwhelming and this is your view on death.

Speaker 3: 42:35

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 42:38

They know, yeah, I feel like that.

Speaker 4: 42:40

I mean just your words that you used to describe it.

Speaker 3: 42:43

I feel like you made a lot of sense I was literally talking to a client last night and I literally used those words that what I have come to understand is that none of us are making this well, none of us are gonna make it out of here alive, right, right, and it's a reality. But there is so much that we can be grateful for once you've come through the pain and the heartache. But I literally was talking in very, very much reality terms.

Speaker 4: 43:16

Yeah, yeah, but it also sounded to me like there's no escaping it. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 43:21

It's a bummer. It's almost like an acceptance of reality, which is also freedom and also freeing to accept that this is part of life, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: 43:32

Terry, what do you think about your wall? Well, it's white, it's pristine.

Speaker 1: 43:36

It's very, very tall.

Speaker 4: 43:39

Can't scale it, but you're overwhelmed by it. Well, yeah, I'm gonna.

Speaker 1: 43:45

Hang on.

Speaker 4: 43:52

So to me when I heard that, I thought of death as natural, but it's also overwhelming which I think my thumbs up to yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I guess I'm not coming up with anything on that one.

Speaker 1: 44:14

I mean, me and the house actually talk about it more than a couple probably should. But we're in that stage of life where you know he's looking at retiring in a few years, which means he has to choose which pension option that he's going to take, and okay, so here's the overwhelm part of it.

Speaker 3: 44:33

I see you smiling because you're like there it is.

Speaker 1: 44:35

go on there it is there it is. So you know, I don't know I'm not gonna get into a big long explanation about pensions but when the spouse gets a benefit it's much less than what you get when the spouse is alive, right. And so I grew up very poor and I have probably never really shaken that mentality that it can be scary to be in an insecure place financially, and so whenever we talk about it I end up with that feeling in my stomach like ugh, you know, this is yucky. I don't like this overwhelming feeling that I get that it could be scary. And when you were talking about the hole in the wall, I feel like that's saying you know it's a risk, it's a risk whichever option that we choose. But and I may not get through it unscathed, but I'll be okay when I get to the other side, yeah.

Speaker 4: 45:35

All right, well, let's jump right into that hole. Amanda, yours was an escape, but it represented hope. And I found this part interesting because you said you could either go back to the forest or you can move on to this white light. And you said that you could go through the hole, but it's jagged so you might not be unscathed. But you didn't see anything in the hole. But you know you can get to the other side. You just maybe you don't know what that is and this is your view on the afterlife. Yeah, so you can be reincarnated and go back, or you can go towards the white light and you can get to the end and come out with a couple of bumps and bruises, but you're not sure what's there.

Speaker 3: 46:28

Wow, yeah, that brings up a lot when you said that with the Listers, I lost both of my parents. But when you said that, I was like this is the choice that we all face when we lose someone. If you can go back or you can go forward, it's literally the only choice that all of us have. And both of those paths are gonna lead us to very different places, because I've lived both of those places and we have to reckon with the past and we have to go back and reckon, but there's so much hope in the future, so that made a lot of sense for me. And then when you said the white no white light I think you said bright white like snow.

Speaker 3: 47:26

So I had this picture it's my cover photo on my Facebook and it was the first time after my parents died. I was driving down the road and I looked up and it was like the clouds. You know what, if your social media friends would love to see me look at my Facebook, Um, but the clouds were like open and there were these white puffy clouds and like I never felt my parents presence more strongly and I knew in that moment like there's an afterlife, like it's okay. So I keep that as my cover photo. So this is super cool.

Speaker 4: 48:05

Yeah, and Terry, you're said, like you said, you can't get out on skates, but you, there's something, but you're not sure what it is.

Speaker 1: 48:17

Yeah, I heard Jim Rohn say again the other day with obviously he's gone, but recorded a recording of him say you know, life is risky and it's so risky that you're not going to get out alive.

Speaker 3: 48:29

Yeah, I think my fun facture.

Speaker 1: 48:32

Yeah, and I think that's that's what came to mind when I heard your interpretation, amanda, was it is risky. You know, like the book writing the. You know the all the things that you're doing every day with you know your leadership, training and you know helping your clients and teaching. Like, every time you you step on a stage or you can step in front of a classroom or whatever you're doing, you're taking a risk that the information that you're given giving isn't going to be received in the manner which you wanted to be and and risking, you know, ridicule or shame or whatever. You know, and I think you know the same, if I look at my life and I think about the book writing, you know I can put all this effort and all this time and money into writing this book and it may flop and you know the people just might not receive it well, might not receive my message well, but at the end of the day, like it's worth all the bumps and bruises to go through. And it's so funny, amanda, because you've been walking and I'm so proud of you and I have been making more of an effort to get outside and walk. I trace those involved in a really serious motorcycle accident. So I've been recovering and Just recently been getting out there walking and I have resisted. I lived here over a year and I've resisted walking this path, that where we live, just because it's not the best path to walk on and find the. I said I'm just gonna stop resisting it. And one day recently, like within the last few days, I was walking on it and I was.

Speaker 1: 50:11

I was thinking about the power of your story. This is something Amanda and I talked about for years, and your story begins the day you're born and then you know, as someone standing at your headstone looking at the date that you died, there's a dash, right, there's a dash between your birthday and your in your day of death, and the dash represents our stories. And there's a lot of risk along the way. We're going to get hurt, we're going to lose our parents, we're going to lose friendships, we're going to try things that maybe don't work out the way we want them to. But the dash is, you know, all about living. It's the risk of living, and I think it's beautiful. I think the dash is beautiful and I think it's beautiful even with bumps and scrapes and Risk and hurt and heartache, and that's what that means to me all that. That's what that means to me.

Speaker 3: 51:10

That was such a beautiful summary, terry, such a beautiful summary, and I just want to say, as we wrap this up, that you know, tracy and I have been colleagues for a long time, but you know I've told her this before every time we do anything creatively with her, my thought is always the same why don't I do more creative stuff with you? Because, truly, you, your gifts are so deep. This was just so special to me. So, thank you, thanks for being a fan, so it, this is supposed to be the wrap up for Soul Sisters today.

Speaker 1: 51:41

Right, like no we got one more. We've got our episode with Dr Gupta coming up.

Speaker 3: 51:47

Okay, so we have one more, but I know that we wanted this to be toward the end, because it's something special about our friendship and then and then Tracy coming in and kind of ping ponging. So I guess what I was thinking and I want to say and leave the listeners whip is you know, the path is is beautiful sometimes and the path is really like rocky and there's so many hurdles. But I will tell you what I've been thinking about since, like we started wrapping us up as man. The path is so much better when you have like women in your life, like you and like Tracy, and I'm just so grateful. So, thank you.

Speaker 1: 52:19

I'm grateful too. Our listeners wanted to kind of apply this, like if you could just like wrap it up for us today, like you know, like I'm glad, amanda, you paused and said think about those questions, go back and listen, write them down. And I love how you, you know, broke it down and told us what each thing represented. So if someone was thinking today things to them, so I kind of want to do this for myself, like just tell them real quick, like what would you recommend that they do if they're doing it for themselves for the very first time?

Speaker 4: 52:49

I would say write down as many notes as possible and then, when you go back, go back a couple times, like, even if you can't figure out what what that means, what your descriptive words means, take some more time to analyze it, come back to it, because I think the cool thing about this test and there's other tests like it is you can figure out what you want to work on. So if you, if you couldn't see anything in your body of water, maybe you're lacking a connection in your life and you want to branch out and make more friends Look at all of those and figure out, because it's what you value right now, in this moment. So I think it'll give you the tools to help you find, maybe, more happiness, because this can kind of uncover things that are lacking in your life, things that you dwell on too much, things that need healing, and I think you can kind of help you with self discovery but also self healing.

Speaker 1: 53:50

I love that. What a great way to end the show. Thank you for being with us today, tracy.

Speaker 4: 53:54

For having me. This was fun. Yes, thank you. Bye everybody.

Speaker 3: 53:58

Take care.

Speaker 1: 54:01

Well, that's a wrap for this week. Thank you so much for joining us. We're so glad to be here with you.

Speaker 2: 54:06

And just remember, we're here to serve. Reach out, connect with us on social media platforms and dig in deeper.

Speaker 1: 54:13

All those links will be in the podcast show notes. So join us. We can't wait to continue the conversation with you over there.