Healing and Reinventing with Dr. Amy Diaz: The Impact of Mentors and Community

How do we heal and find resilience when faced with unexpected changes in our careers, and how can the support of mentors lead us to success? Join us today as my co-host, Amanda Kieper, and I sit down with the inspiring Dr. Amy Diaz, the new president of Gateway Community College in Arizona, to explore these questions and more. As we dive into Amy's journey from math teacher to college president, we uncover the crucial role that mentors have played, guiding her through moments of grief and self-discovery.

Amy shares her experience of transitioning from a long-term role at Rock Valley Community College, recounting the emotional rollercoaster that ensued, including betrayal, embarrassment, and shame. Through this difficult time, mentors like Jack Becker provided unwavering support, helping her finish her doctoral degree and reshape her identity in the world of academia. We also delve into the concept of location grief as Amy navigates starting anew in Phoenix, discussing the challenges of building a sense of community and the fear and anxiety that come with beginning a new chapter.

Finally, we reflect on the importance of strong friendships and supportive relationships in our lives, celebrating the cheerleaders and partners in crime who lift us up during our darkest moments. Dr. Diaz's story serves as a powerful reminder of our capacity for growth and reinvention, even in the face of adversity. So grab a cup of tea, sit back, and join us for this heartfelt conversation – and don't forget to connect with us on social media to continue the discussion!

Transcript

Terri Kellums: 0:03

Hello and welcome to What Women Want Today, podcast season three, the Soul Sister series, where we will tackle tough topics straight from our heart to yours. I'm Terri Kellams, your host and coach for women who struggle to find meaning in fulfillment in midlife.

Amanda Kieper: 0:17

I am Amanda Kieper. I am your new regular contributor. I come straight from the Midwest Rockford Illinois. I'm a public speaking teacher and leadership development professor. I'm also a coach and clinical mental health counselor. I am so thrilled to be here, and let's get started.

Terri Kellums: 0:34

Let's do it. Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the What Women Want Today podcast. I'm your host, Terri Kellams.

Amanda Kieper: 0:44

I am your regular contributor, amanda KiKieer, and we are here today with somebody who is super, super special to me, and that is Dr Amy Diaz, who we will refer to as Amy on this podcast, because I have known Amy for so long and I feel like I have earned the right.

Terri Kellums: 1:01

Well, absolutely, and she swam in my swimming pool, so I think I can call her Amy, you can too, Terri Yes.

Amanda Kieper: 1:10

So just a little bit about Amy. Amy is the new president of Gateway Community College in Arizona and before that I met her at Rock Valley College in Rockford Illinois, and Amy was one of my first mentors, who I always say. She opened every door I could ever ask her to open. So I had a dream of becoming a counselor. So I went and asked her like hey, this is what I'm thinking. And she says, what can I do?

Amanda Kieper: 1:37

So next thing, you know, i am working on a second degree in clinical mental health counseling and Amy gives me every opportunity at Rock Valley College to do the internship hours and make that dream come true. And she, you have done that for tons and tons and tons of people. And so, amy, i have, as you know, i always tell you I have so much respect for you on a professional level. And then getting to know you personally is equally as fun and just, it's just an honor to have you So welcome. Thank you so much.

Amanda Kieper: 2:13

Yes, and I called Amy Terri and, as you know, we're doing a series on grief, and I asked Amy to be here because, amy, you went through something very difficult and something that you never expected would happen to you in your career. You had been working at Rock Valley College for a really, really long time and then something unexpected happened And I want us to get there. But before we get there, i would like you to kind of tell us about your career journey, because you have a ton of depth and breadth in your professional journey as well. So will you start there?

Dr Amy Diaz: 2:49

Absolutely. Yeah, thank you for having me today. So you know, i love the fact that you have identified me as a mentor And I think you know, when we think about people in our lives who have impacted us in ways that sometimes are obvious and sometimes are not so obvious, i categorize all of those things in the field of mentorship And, whether it's formal or informal, whether people know that they've had an impact on you in that way is sometimes an interesting dialogue because a lot of times they don't realize how they're impacting someone else. But I say that because I really feel like my career journey started with a woman who I had as a sophomore in high school for my advanced algebra class, and I really identified her then and still do as my first mentor-mentee relationship. I was a sophomore in high school. She was my advanced algebra teacher And I think I always knew I was good at math but I really connected with her in a way that I think I hadn't connected with any teacher prior to that And that is really what ended up being the impetus for me becoming a junior high math teacher as my first career. So her name was Miss Deepa Squally at the time And I stayed in touch with her all through college. She helped me get through a couple of classes that were really tough and really encouraged me along the way to then look for a teaching position where the fit was right, teaching in the right kind of school district and in the right disciplines and that sort of thing.

Dr Amy Diaz: 4:30

And so I ended up teaching in Bluette, wisconsin initially. So I went to the University of Iowa for my four-year degree, came back to Rockford Illinois, moved in Rockford And it's really bizarre because you would think a female in math teaching that there would be tons of jobs all the time And I think that's generally true. Except for the year that I graduated from, it was really hard to find a teaching job in math specifically without maybe being willing to move a far distance from where I had identified that I wanted to live at the time, which was back in Rockford. So Bluette's only a stone's throw away across the border of Illinois and Wisconsin, and so I ended up teaching at a junior high. I was certified to teach 7 through 12, taught at a junior high and fell in love with teaching, but early on in that experience realized I also missed being a student And so I think it was only my second year of teaching that I explored master's degree programs and ended up thinking about counseling as a potential career and maybe for a semester or so considered counseling in the K-12 system, but got introduced to this idea of being a counselor in the college arena and specifically within community colleges.

Dr Amy Diaz: 5:56

So that's actually where I first got introduced to the idea of working at a community college, even though while I went to the University of Iowa every summer I would come back and take one class at Rock Valley just to stay on track. So I had a little bit of experience as a student at Rock Valley, but I really didn't think of the community college as a place where I might find my passion and my love in the way that I did. And it was because of the counseling program and, as you know, amanda, there's a requirement to do some practical hours and some curriculum, and at that time I did some curriculum development and I did an internship And I did all of that at Rock Valley while I was attending Northern Illinois University. And so I think I just got the bug right As soon as I got introduced to the community college and the mission and the vision and the lives of the people that you impact in so many positive ways. I couldn't wait to get into the community college right, i had this taste just as a graduate student, and there was an opportunity at Rock Valley. Someone, i think, had an early retirement buyout opportunity and they took it And so I applied for the job very shortly after I had finished my internship.

Dr Amy Diaz: 7:24

So that was back in 1994, but I started at Rock Valley as a counselor and it's really probably the most pivotal point in my career to get introduced to community colleges and to have that particular job, because it filled my bucket, it allowed me to continue to be in education. I feel like I'm a lifelong educator, regardless of the title. I think I always will have that lens of educating, helping, connecting, relating, and you get to do all of those things in the higher education. So, yeah, i ended up spending 22 years at Rock Valley and had many different positions. I was afforded a lot of both formal and informal professional development. I had a lot of great mentors there And, yeah, it was a really, really good opportunity for me that, as you know, once I ended up being a counselor for several years and then became a director of counseling and then became an associate vice president and did some dean work that I ended up leaving there as the vice president of student development. So that was my total. Were you there?

Terri Kellums: 8:49

Amy 22. And did you say you grew up in Rockford? I did, and so you already were invested in the community that you grew up in. And now you've got this position where you really feel like you're making an impact in the community. So you got like a double whammy there, because your heart is there, like you're really feeling, like you're making an impact, you feel like you belong, like you see the result of your efforts being there right, like is it Rock.

Dr Amy Diaz: 9:21

Valley. I did every day. I mean it showed up in different ways, but every single day there was some positive comment Thank you. You don't even know what you did for me when you did this sort of conversation with students, with other employees. I remember getting cards from students, But I think it's really honing in, Teri, on what you're suggesting, which is, I grew up in that community. I felt connected to that community anyway because it sort of enveloped me in a way that I think if you're not from a community it's hard to figure that out sometimes. So I really felt like it was giving to me and I was giving to it.

Terri Kellums: 10:10

Great because you were getting that need of belonging fulfilled as well. I get that a lot. Yeah, makes that sense.

Amanda Kieper: 10:20

So I'm curious, before we get into the transition, because I love how you started with the idea of mentorship and jumped right into your experiences Who were? because I don't even know, if I know who were your mentors at RBC.

Dr Amy Diaz: 10:34

Yeah, i had several of them. One of the first women who I was introduced to. Her name's Cindy Hill and she was the Dean of Students at the time and she's the person who hired me And I remember being so. I respected her so much because she gave so much of her self, personally and professionally, to the role, to the students, to her team, so she was really probably one of the first people who I identify as a mentor, even though, interestingly, i'm not sure she would know that, but I think that she provided that to me. Diane Nyhammer is certainly a mentor. She was someone who came in at an interesting time at the college. She was a presidential change and she was part of the new presidential change. Certainly, jack Becker is a mentor And Diane and Jack both know they were mentors to me And I still talk to them pretty regularly And so I end up having a chance to continue my relationship with them. But he was the president at the time And he's the person who I attribute probably seeing more of my leadership qualities in me than I saw in myself.

Dr Amy Diaz: 12:08

So I'm sure you've had women on the show who've talked about imposter syndrome. Oh, i have When someone sees something in you that you don't see in yourself. It feels really good, but it's also scary. Sure, it feels good for someone to say, no, i think you can do this. I want you to try it, let's see how it goes. I'm there to be right alongside of you. I'll help you through the challenging parts of this job or whatever the situation may be. And then you get in it and you think, okay, this person has more confidence in me than I have confidence in me. Yeah, and so I did.

Dr Amy Diaz: 12:44

I leaned on him a lot in the early days of I think that was the associate vice president of student development, that position And I think I went from a director to an associate VP And that seemed like a big leap for me. Something else that I think is interesting about having mentors is that you can use them as confidence too, and I think what happens in higher education and this likely happens in most industry sectors is the more responsibility you're given in, the higher the position, the less people you have to rely on. That you can have those sidebar conversations about. I've never done this part of the job before. I'm not sure that I know what I'm doing. Yes, I'm thinking, but you can't go to your team necessarily, and say that because you might run the risk of losing their confidence in you. So you have to be able to go to those people who are either sort of adjacent to you or maybe even those people you report to in that mentor slash, confidant relationship, to be able to run things by them. Say it again.

Amanda Kieper: 13:59

Amanda, oh, i was just gonna say you jumped right into a question. I was going to ask you because Terry and I have been talking about this so much in terms of career directory trajectory excuse me, a difference between like hoping and knowing. So like, when did you know? Like I have a future And one day I'm gonna be a vice president or a president. Like when did you know?

Dr Amy Diaz: 14:23

Yeah, it's a really, really interesting question and I may have a slightly atypical answer because, as I reflect on even getting to the position I'm in now as the permanent president at Gateway Community College, i think I have not always aspired to be a president. Okay, it was somewhat situational and I was in the right place at the right time and I had the right people around me. And then I got to experience it in an interim role first, which helped me build my confidence in the role and I knew that I liked it. So, if I even go back to the going from a director to an AVP, that was something that Jack asked me to do. I was not necessarily ready, even though, again, he saw that in me.

Dr Amy Diaz: 15:19

So I think it was that particular change of role that I thought, oh gosh, i need to maybe be a little bit more intentional about what I'm trying to do here, because I've always been sort of in the moment. I've just I've liked what I've done. I think the most intentional thing I ever did was get the next degree Right. I was always working on the next degree to have sort of something in my back pocket In case the thing I was doing some have went away.

Terri Kellums: 15:49

But you never really. You never really saw yourself going anywhere, Like I think I'm hearing you say like this was it, Like this was your path, This was your place, This was your community. You're in you're always.

Dr Amy Diaz: 16:00

I was always and I sort of hate to use this word, but I'm gonna use the word contend Like I was content with. I was content being a counselor, then I was content being the director of counseling, and that was maybe a set of circumstances that allowed me to be placed in that role. And then there was a series of reorganizations at the college, and so I think that's why the knowing versus hoping is not at the forefront of some of my story, because I do think I kept getting reorg'd into new opportunities with additional responsibilities At it, which is not a typical way of a professional trajectory of development, right, so I do think in a lot of ways I've maybe just always been in the right place at the right time And have been afforded opportunities that were a result of other things happening, not necessarily me going for it.

Amanda Kieper: 17:08

Got it.

Dr Amy Diaz: 17:09

That makes total sense yeah, now in Arizona that's been a different story, but at Rock Valley I was sort of, i think, just always in the right place at the right time for the opportunities. But so the knowing versus hoping is a really interesting. It's a really interesting dynamic because I find that a lot of people hope for things that they don't necessarily create the right experiences for themselves. To have the examples to say here's what I've done in the job that I have, which is how I know I'm ready for this next challenge.

Terri Kellums: 17:52

Right. I use the thing too, like when you're in a leadership role, you're always looking for that person. You're always looking for that person who steps up. You're looking for the person who behaves with integrity, and so I hear what you're saying like you've kind of been in the right place at the right time, but I'm guessing that you've always kind of conducted yourself in a manner that they had their eye on you like the whole time.

Dr Amy Diaz: 18:15

I'm sure that there is truth to that, and even as I mentor other women in a program that we have out here in Maricopa, i always talk to them about consider every opportunity that crosses your path, whether you're ready for it or not. Consider it. You don't have to take every single one that crosses your path, but you never know the unintended positive outcome of what you might do by taking on that, even if it's an extra project or someone asks you to be the leader of something within your team and you might think you're not ready for it. But those are the kinds of things that your potential next supervisor might be looking for and might have a bird's eye view of you doing that within the organization. So it's not always the title change, it's sometimes the what are the things that you take on that are leader-like things or additional things that might be outside of your regular job duties that are really building opportunities for you to show your value?

Terri Kellums: 19:23

Right, because you don't have to have the title of leader to be seen as a leader. You just have to have the ability to influence other people, and that's where you eventually work yourself into that role.

Dr Amy Diaz: 19:36

Yes, and I feel really fortunate to be at this particular college now, because I inherited that exact philosophy. So there was an interim president before me and then the former permanent president, who's now the permanent chancellor for the whole Maricopa system, and they both led with. Anyone can lead from any position at the college. So when I came here as a dean, as an instructional dean that was the message from the then president Anyone can lead from any position in the college. You don't need a title that sounds like a leader to be a leader, and so we talk about that at Gateway a lot, yeah. And when Mary talked about Maxwell, too like.

Dr Amy Diaz: 20:22

Yes, I learned it.

Amanda Kieper: 20:24

Yeah, so you are in this amazing position right now, but it wasn't an easy road getting there, and that's kind of what I want to go back to is that you never expected to be the president of Gateway College And, in fact, you had to go through at least a year and a year and a half of really grieving, So can you? tell us what unfolded and how you ended up in Arizona. Yes, I'd be happy to.

Dr Amy Diaz: 20:53

You know, i think when I really spend some time reflecting on what was going on at the college that I was at at the time, it was probably it was probably two whole years before I left Rock Valley that the dynamic changed for me personally there. So I'm in the role of a vice president of student affairs at that time. Let's say I'd been in the role almost 10 years And I think you know had done some really great work. But there were environmental things that were going on just across the higher education landscape and specifically in the state of Illinois that created a sense of urgency to grow enrollment. And to grow enrollment at a time when people were not necessarily interested in the economy was good, right. I mean, we know in community colleges the economy when the economy is bad, enrollment's good. When the economy is good, enrollment's not always great because people are out there working and they're not looking to be in a training program or a degree track program that's gonna create a new opportunity for them.

Dr Amy Diaz: 22:08

So we had done some forecasting.

Dr Amy Diaz: 22:10

You know it was part of the student enrollment and student development team And we had done some forecasting that was going to suggest that we were going to be going to be in a few years of enrollment decline. And I think, because my value system is to always be positive I'm sorry to always be honest even when the information isn't positive, right Like, my value system is to be transparent and to use data and to allow for a conversation to unfold, or unfold that I don't think at the time that that was appreciated by the people who were in the decision to accept that information. And so you know, as the leader of the team that was trying to grow enrollment, we were doing everything we could, but enrollment was not growing, it was declining. And so that, coupled with the fact that the state didn't ratify a budget for I think it was three years in a row at that time And they paid their compensatory educational commitments, you know. So they gave funding to the K-12 systems, but they didn't give any funding to the community college system.

Terri Kellums: 23:35

That And what year was this aiming about? What year do you think this was? This was probably 2013, 2014, 2015.

Dr Amy Diaz: 23:43

Okay, so I think those might be the three years that the Illinois state that the legislature did not ratify a budget, so they didn't pay the community colleges, and this was across the whole state. It wasn't just a Rock Valley issue, but it complicated things because enrollments were declining and we were getting less money from the state to run the college And so there was a decision made at the time to eliminate I think it was 29 or 30 positions across the college And again, it wasn't only at Rock Valley. Other colleges were doing similar things And if I think about and I was one of the, i think it was 29, actually I think I was one of the 29. And I remember it in a way that I think many people at the time might also remember it, but it stung in a way that maybe it didn't sting as greatly for other people because it was the front page article of the paper the next day after the board approved the eliminates.

Terri Kellums: 24:54

Your name, specifically, was in there. Oh yeah, and so the whole world is learning as you're still trying to deal with a life change, the huge life change.

Dr Amy Diaz: 25:04

Yeah, it was.

Dr Amy Diaz: 25:05

You know, in a series of a couple of days I remember having a gut feeling, in that I'm not hearing a lot about what I knew was likely happening, which was eliminating some positions.

Dr Amy Diaz: 25:19

I wasn't hearing anything about it, so I had a gut feeling that I didn't want to recognize that my position was going to be on the list. And as I reflect back on it this many years later, there were signs two years ahead of that, that it was probably a dysfunctional place for me personally and professionally, but I was so committed to doing the work that I couldn't see that clearly. I couldn't see that I was suffering, even though the work was still good work. Yeah, until it wasn't, you know. And then so there was one day that I was called in to tell, to be told that my position was going to be eliminated, And so I understood what that meant. And I think the next day the board had a meeting and they accepted the list of the 29 or so employees whose positions were being eliminated, and the next day was the front page article of the paper, at least that's how I remember it.

Terri Kellums: 26:21

Yeah, i was reading an article in New York Times in preparation for our conversation today And they said you know they were talking about grieving after changing jobs. Even when it's your choice, they're still a grieving period. And, interesting enough, it said there are people who identify with their occupation, what they do, and there are people who identify with the company they work for. An example they gave was I'm a computer programmer or I work for Google. Yes, so which one of those do you think you were at that time?

Dr Amy Diaz: 26:53

Yeah, at the time I probably identified with working at Rock Valley. Yeah, and more so than doing the work, because Rock Valley was and still is such an important entity in that community. Ok, i'm bounce off my screen now, and it really is. You know, when you talk about the impact of social justice, i mean a community college is a social justice advocate. I mean it has to be. There's always room for more improvement there. But it is the equalizer of people who come from different socioeconomic backgrounds, different levels of education in their family. I mean it really is the equalizer in my mind.

Dr Amy Diaz: 27:39

And so I was so proud to work at Rock Valley and had probably seen myself retiring from Rock Valley, right, right, and I even think of the generation that I come from, and certainly my parents' generation. You didn't work at a lot of different places for short periods of time, right, this whole gig worker thing was not a thing. Then You found the place that you worked and you pretty much committed yourself to it for an extended period of time, if not maybe your whole career. You know, my dad worked at one company for 45 years And that was my role model. But that was a pretty common story for a lot of us, i think. So I think it was. The college was such a pinnacle in the community that I was so proud to be able to say that that was my.

Dr Amy Diaz: 28:36

That was where my career was housed you know, at Rock Valley, at that particular community college, and then we were doing all of this good work, right, but it was probably in that order, which I think is why no longer working at that college from one day to the next day, almost regardless of whose decision, it was felt like I loved and lost so much of my identity. Yeah, you know, in 24 hours I didn't necessarily have a plan B, which is very odd for me because I'm a planner, like I love planning. And even when I was teaching in Beloy I went back and got that master's degree for community or for higher education student development, i'll say, so that I had something in my back pocket, you know, so that I had a chance to move into something else. So if I think back to my relationship with probably both Diane Nyhamer and Jack Becker, they prepared me for that event, even if I didn't see the event coming, because Jack Becker is the one who would say to me you know, how's your dissertation going, how's your doctoral program going? And at the time I already had the job that would have been commiserate with needing the degrees. So you know, i was kind of relaxed about it.

Dr Amy Diaz: 29:57

I wasn't really as motivated to finish that degree until he started sharing with me that things at Rock Valley were maybe not as great as I thought they were And they weren't as great for him And, by association, they weren't necessarily going to be as great for me moving forward. That was my wake up call, you know, to finish my degree. I mean that in his conversations with me around that change, where the landscape starts to change a little bit and you're not sure it's not as predictable as it was in the previous years, you said you know you never know when you're going to wish you had had that degree. You need to go back and finish the degree. And that particular year, you know, he practically forced me to write it into my goals for my job. So, being the good student that I am, i finally got it.

Terri Kellums: 30:54

Yeah, what an awesome mentor he was.

Amanda Kieper: 30:57

That's a game changer for you. You don't take his advice and your life is different right now.

Dr Amy Diaz: 31:03

It absolutely is, because there's no way I could be in the position I'm in out here in Arizona. I probably wouldn't have even been the instructional dean initially which is the job I came for here if I didn't have the doctorate, because that is a competitive accomplishment, right.

Terri Kellums: 31:21

So, before we move to Arizona, I want to just take one little small step backwards and put myself in your shoes, because this is what I'm thinking. The listeners might be wondering. Like I've invested my life in a community, in a college I've been there 20 plus years They don't treat me very nicely on my way out. What are my thoughts the next day? What am I asking myself? What am I saying to myself? What am I saying about myself if I'm Amy Diaz?

Dr Amy Diaz: 31:49

Yeah, it's such a great question because in some ways, i remember it like it was yesterday and in other ways, i have so much distance that I can be more objective about it.

Dr Amy Diaz: 32:04

I definitely felt betrayed, i felt ignorant, i was ashamed, i felt embarrassed, but I think betrayal was probably the biggest one, and then all the other emotions just were immediately connected to that one, because I could pretty easily say but I was always replaceable.

Dr Amy Diaz: 32:29

Why did I let myself get so attached that I didn't protect myself? And so I think I felt that I had done myself a disservice by maybe having on blinders to some extent, that I really thought that I was so much a part of that community that this would pass, that I wouldn't be impacted by it, maybe directly in the way that I was impacted by all of the things that were going on, because it wasn't only about me at the time. It really was about a budget crisis and decreasing women, but I didn't think I would be a casualty because of it, and that's literally how I remember thinking about it. That's why I think connecting this to the theme of grief is such an interesting conversation, because I don't know that people necessarily think about grieving positions. You think about grieving people more than you think about grieving positions, but I was grieving myself Right, did you know right?

Terri Kellums: 33:36

away. You were grieving.

Dr Amy Diaz: 33:40

Maybe, but maybe within a week, I'm not sure. On the day, on the day that I woke up, i just felt so sad. And if sad is one of the first emotions connected to grief, then I probably did. Even if I didn't maybe label it as grief, i felt sad. I felt interestingly, i don't think I felt angry right away, so we know what the stage is of grief are.

Dr Amy Diaz: 34:10

I felt angry a little bit later down the road, but I was probably the most angry at myself for allowing myself to be in a position where I thought why didn't I see this coming, even a couple of months prior?

Dr Amy Diaz: 34:28

I probably could have negotiated a different exit for myself, where I wouldn't have been the lead story on the front page of the Rockford Register Star And I don't know why I didn't see it. I think Again, i think I was just so committed to that place that I thought that was enough. I thought my level of commitment and my prior 21 and a half years of history there and dedication to that particular place was enough. So when I think about, you know, the next day and feeling sad and feeling lost and feeling betrayed, i mean, i think those were the feelings. So I don't think I felt incompetent, though, good, you know, i do think I felt like well, what am I going to do now? And I think I could feel that way because I had people in my life who immediately reached out to me and said take some time, do what you need to do, but when you're ready to think about what you want to do next, i'm here for you.

Amanda Kieper: 35:40

And so I want to add that part to the story. That I think is really important for listeners to know is, when you do good work and you go through something like this, you don't even have to speak for yourself, because other people will speak for you. This community was in shock. I remember, and I know you remember this, amy It's the first time I've ever put anybody on blast on Facebook and I wrote such a long post, and I think I've never had a post shared more times in my life. I think it was shared like 80 or 100 times. I was, i was outraged Amy hadn't hit rage yet, but I was outraged and there was an outpouring that you received, amy Absolutely, which I'm sure helped a little bit in the grieving process. I know that you had the most influential powerhouses in this city calling and saying what can we do? How can we help? Here's, here's opportunities, lorraine Logan being one of them. Yep.

Dr Amy Diaz: 36:41

She was the next person I was going to say. So if we bring it back to mentors, right, lorraine? Lorraine and I know each other, mostly from Rock Valley and her connection with Rock Valley, but also through Transform Rockford, and I had been a volunteer with many of the the collective impact Work you know that we were doing And she was probably the most pinnacle person for me, although, like you said, amanda I mean the list just goes on and on. The outpouring of support from the Rock Valley community was amazing, even people who I wasn't sure that they cared for me that much. You know, in the day to day grind of things maybe I had made some decisions that they didn't like They were reaching out to me to say, oh my goodness, i can't believe this happened to you. You know we're here for you, but really it was Lorraine because Lorraine Lorraine's the person who reached out to me and said when you're ready, let's go have coffee And we're going to figure out what's the next thing for you. I'm sorry, amy.

Terri Kellums: 37:46

I know I almost had a time and I want to get to the end of your story, because not only are these stories about grief and thank you for recognizing that. Not all people recognize these as grief moments in our life. Like you said, they associate grief with a person, and this is why Man and I felt so passionate about doing this series is, you know, we want to help people recognize those moments in life and label them so that you can deal with them. But you know, it's underlying under all of these stories is resilience and pivots. And so let's talk about how you went from Rockford Illinois to the United States, from Rockford Illinois, which I think it's super ironic that you are, you with Amanda and Rockford Illinois. Now you're in Arizona where we both live. You and I have long sleeve shirts on. Stay Amanda's in a sleeveless, but just just, i'm sure it's warmer here than it is there. It's like a side You like.

Amanda Kieper: 38:40

Seventy four degree days and.

Terri Kellums: 38:42

I good for you, but how did you, how did you go from Rockford Illinois to Phoenix, arizona And I want to say you brought up a term I hadn't heard.

Amanda Kieper: 38:51

Amy, as you start to tell this story. You had location grief. Oh, say something about that, yeah.

Dr Amy Diaz: 39:00

Well, that I, so I think we identify so much of our, so much of ourselves is in our upbringing Right, and so I had been connected. I had been connected to Rockford Illinois my entire life. I mean that that was my home, and so this was all happening to me also while I was turning 50.

Amanda Kieper: 39:18

Right.

Dr Amy Diaz: 39:19

So there's also something about right, there's something about turning 50. And so I remember thinking I'm more than halfway through my life, like mathematically, i know I'm worth halfway through my life and I can do a couple of things. I felt like the higher education landscape in Illinois was such that if we were and I'm married, and so I had to consider all of this with my husband as well, and I thought, if David and I are going to stay in Illinois, then I need to reinvent myself in a completely different sector work sector Or if I'm going to stay in higher education, then I need to leave Illinois, right? So those were sort of my two paths, if you will. And I was at the literal crossway of those two paths, and you know, i think because I had so much support from David in the decision and when we really looked at our lives together and thought I'm almost 50. He was, i think, 51 at the time. We only have this one life, and what if there's another way of living that we don't know about? but it's this exact situation that's giving us the opportunity to experience something different that we would otherwise probably never have done without this critical incident. You know, like a book.

Dr Amy Diaz: 40:41

Yes, yes, i needed, i needed the push, i needed the shove, and so I applied for different jobs throughout the whole country. We decided that David's job was a good job, and he still has it. He works for a company that is in, i think, 30 states. So he said, as long as you can get a job in another state in higher education, where my job is, i can transfer, you know, within my company. And so that's exactly what we did, but it took, it took a while, and that that's something, too, that I'm sort of an inpatient person, and so I had to practice a lot of patience. And that's again where Lorraine was so helpful, because she she helped me find a job to bridge the gap, so that I wasn't only focused on finding another job. I desperate or desperate.

Dr Amy Diaz: 41:26

Yes, i needed doing something else that was also fulfilling, and working for Transform Rockford filled that gap for me. But I had a doctorate in educational psychology right At this point. I finished my doctorate. So when I really thought about all the investment I've made in education and the fact that I identify with just a natural teacher, my husband and I decided I'm going to stay in higher education and it meant we were going to leave Illinois, and so the interesting thing about the journey was that I was really, i think I realized I was really burned out in the division of student affairs work. It's wonderful work. It's it's very rewarding.

Dr Amy Diaz: 42:03

When I was burned out And I knew that when I started interviewing for more and more vice president of student affairs jobs and thought do I really want to continue doing this? I know I want to stay in higher ed. Maybe I don't want to continue in this, in this path. Well, the instructional dean position at Gateway Community College was probably the singular job that was out there for me that had it allowed me to reinvent myself in academic affairs when I didn't have the typical career path to be an instructional dean. But the job at Rock Valley had just enough of what I might identify as sort of crossover responsibilities.

Dr Amy Diaz: 42:43

Some institutions might put counseling in academic affairs, some put counseling in student affairs. For example, i had just enough of the, the desired qualifications to be competitive in the search, and I remember doing the initial interview here at Gateway and thinking, okay, i didn't think I'd ever say this, but these are my people, because not the Rock Valley people were my only people, right, you know? and so the journey of getting here was rewarding and fulfilling and scary Right It was. It was scary because David and I were older in our careers and in our lifestyle and it and it was a lifestyle change to get here. But the interesting thing about it, i think, is that I got here and panicked because I didn't know Phoenix and I didn't know Arizona and I I didn't know the school district. I know the littlest things can trick you up, right.

Terri Kellums: 43:39

The littlest things can trick you up, like where am I supposed to go get my prescriptions filled? What is the grocery store do I shop at? I got to get new doctors. Yeah, the whole thing. I get that.

Dr Amy Diaz: 43:49

And even having to use my GPS to go from my house to my work. Yes, like that made me panic initially because I was a little bit nervous. Again back to that investment in the community that I grew up in. I just didn't have that experience and was never going to be able to create it. Like you, i'm never going to know Phoenix the way people know Phoenix who grew up here.

Terri Kellums: 44:11

Well, Phoenix is the fifth largest city in America. You feel like a very small fish in a very big pond.

Dr Amy Diaz: 44:17

Right, it's hard to have that community feel, yes, very, very different. But I think that's where some of that location guilt comes from, because David and I moved here. We had some friends here but very few family members if any family members here, and knowing that all of our family was back in Rockford And just that it was going to take more effort and more energy for us to see them and stay connected to them. But we were committed to doing it, like that was part of the deal. It was that, yes, we're going to live in Phoenix but we're always going to go back to Rockford a couple times a year to visit our family and our friends in person, and so that has worked out relatively well. We face time and all those fun things, use of technology, which helps us feel more connected.

Dr Amy Diaz: 45:09

But the interesting thing about my time here at Gateway is I've been here six and a half years and I've had three different jobs. I came in as an instructional dean and it was a wonderful transitional position for me Because I knew enough about it and there was enough new about it that it was super exciting. We didn't have the imposter syndrome here in that role that I had had at some of my positions at Rock Valley. So I hit the ground running pretty quickly here, even though Maricopa as a system is very different than coming from a single college system. So there was a lot to learn, a lot to learn about the college, a lot to learn about the system, but I felt comfortable with the people and the work, which was good. So if all of those things had felt unknown to me, i maybe wouldn't have had as positive of an onboarding experience, but because the people and the work was familiar, it was an easier transition than I thought. And then am I go ahead? Go ahead, i was going to say. I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I was going to say just a series of again, situational things have happened to me here that allowed me to be in that dean role for about two and a half years.

Dr Amy Diaz: 46:25

And then there was a decision to split a one VP model into two. And like these are the wonderful mentors I've had here in Maria Weiss and Stephen Gonzalez, because they knew I came here and, you know, literally uprooted my life and my family's life, to be here to reinvent myself in higher education. That was part of my interview process, i owned a restep of why I was doing what I was doing And when they offered me the opportunity to serve as the interim VP, i was certain they were going to ask me to be the interim vice president of student affairs And that Maria was going to keep the academic affairs portion of her job, because that would have made sense. But they literally said to me we know you came here to have this experience in academic affairs And so we'd like you to consider being the interim vice president of academic affairs And Maria is gonna keep the other half, the student affairs half.

Dr Amy Diaz: 47:25

How generous is that? I mean, that also was an amazing opportunity for me that I didn't even see myself being a VP of academic affairs And I thought, yeah, i'm set, i'm gonna be this instructional dean at Gateway in the next 10 years and I'm gonna retire from Gateway and I'm gonna have this great life in Arizona. So you know it might sound a little irresponsible that I haven't had more intentionality behind some of my decisions that have led to these awesome opportunities, but I really think I've just been in the right place at the right time, again at Gateway, because then I served in that role for a year and then the permanent VP of academic affairs for a year, and then I had the opportunity to serve as the interim president of Gateway, which, when I came in the front door here as a dean, i never saw myself as the future eventual president of Gateway. It's part of my aspiration necessarily.

Terri Kellums: 48:26

Well, that's what you said. You weren't super intentional about it, but you were just putting yourself in a good position by the way you handled yourself, i'm sure. So I know Facebook can be very deceptive, but I know for a while after you first moved here and I'm not on there as much as I used to be but it seemed like you just really dived into the Arizona lifestyle, like you, hike. It seems like you guys are really enjoying it here. Do you think you'll stay after you retire?

Dr Amy Diaz: 48:55

Absolutely Yes. I feel like we have made the one huge move in our lives to be here. Both David and I are very, very happy with living in Arizona and our jobs are both great jobs and we're impacting people's lives in the way that we intended to. And so, yes, we've fully embraced. I think of the mountains as my adult playground.

Dr Amy Diaz: 49:22

I loved to hike, i loved to be outside For a while there I was doing a lot more golfing than I've done more recently, but it's the sun, the landscape, the literal landscape and the way of life in Arizona which is different than being in the Midwest. It's very different. I think those Midwestern values of work hard, play hard transferred out here in a way that also helped me to be seen as a leader, because I was probably viewing so much that one of my challenges out here is actually figuring out a better work-life balance, because there are so many fun things to do. I'm not working, but I think that work hard, play hard mantra has been one that I've been able to adopt in both Illinois and in Arizona. It's just the play here looks different. The play looked in Illinois.

Dr Amy Diaz: 50:18

We'll have to figure out how to get Amanda out here, i know, i know So I think we will be the people who live here all the time and probably, in retirement, go back to Illinois for the summer. Oh, okay, that's probably what we'll do, with all of our families still being back there.

Terri Kellums: 50:34

Yeah, I think that's what's different between you and I is I had a very small family when I moved out here, but I don't have a lot of family there to go back to, so I don't go back very much anymore, but I still feel like a Midwest girl. I think you can take the girl out of the Midwest, you can't take the Midwest out of the house. Exactly, exactly. I still try to feed my family here, Brian's sons. I try to feed them casserole and they don't do many casserole.

Dr Amy Diaz: 51:00

Casserole is definitely a Midwestern thing.

Terri Kellums: 51:04

Well, amy, i know, amanda, i hogged this whole like interview process because I just haven't been able to talk to Amy in a long time. So do you have any final words or questions for Amy before we wrap up today?

Amanda Kieper: 51:16

So, Amy, I just wanted to so to somebody who is listening, who is going through the shock of a career transition. What do you want them to know?

Dr Amy Diaz: 51:29

I want them to know that it's okay to feel however you feel about the situation, that you should sort of embrace just being in that space for a little bit, even though it's painful and even though it's uncomfortable, and even if you feel desperate to figure out the next thing, take some time for yourself and really try to just reflect on what you want your next step to be, so that you don't inadvertently act too quickly and get into something that you didn't mean to get yourself into.

Dr Amy Diaz: 52:05

And I feel like I left Rockvalley in December of 2015 and I didn't end up out here until September of 2016. So that was nine months of not knowing for sure what I was gonna do, but I did have an opportunity to continue to pay my bills and things like that. So I realized that the situation might be dependent on someone's ability to bring money in, and so there might be a feeling of but I have to have some income, so I'm gonna have to do something. But really just try to embrace it for everything that it is, even though it may not be something that you meant to happen, because if you allow yourself to be open to the people who will reach out to you and the opportunities that might come your way. As a result of it, you will find yourself likely in a better place than maybe you even were before the situation happened.

Amanda Kieper: 53:06

So you literally just reminded me of one of my favorite quotes from Conan O'Brien when he's talking about losing the spot in the Tonight Show. He said your perceived failure can be the catalyst for profound reinvention.

Dr Amy Diaz: 53:20

Yes, i love it Yeah last one, that's you, I know that's you.

Amanda Kieper: 53:25

So two more things to say as we close up. I think this is both probably annoying to every administrator I've ever worked with, but I hold every person I ever worked with to your standard. You have created the standard and I have held other people to your standard, So you raised the bar on every person I've ever worked with, including myself and my own career. I have so much respect for you.

Dr Amy Diaz: 53:54

Thank you. thank you for that 100%. It's an interesting idea because I know the standard. I know the standard I hold myself to and I don't necessarily expect everyone else to hold themselves to that same standard, but I wanna try to help people to be the best they can, be Right. and so if it's aspirational because my life has just been such that I've been able to what sometimes I describe as overwork every job I've had, and that's not always what someone else can do and that's not always what someone else even needs to do Or wants to Yeah, yeah, exactly. So it's something that I try really hard not to expect people to do exactly the way I'm doing it or exactly at the same level that I'm doing it. because it's a choice.

Amanda Kieper: 54:49

like I'm making the choice to do that, yeah, great okay, I don't watch it because this is the Soul Sister series, So I know you have really really good, strong friendships in your life. When you think of your Soul Sister or Soul Sisters, what do they bring to your life and what is it about them that you cherish so much?

Dr Amy Diaz: 55:09

Yes, i love this question too, and I have probably three different women who are coming to mind here. I love that they are always my cheerleader, even when I'm not necessarily my own cheerleader, like they are my cheerleaders. I love that they will call me out on my BS, like I might say something and they say I don't think you really mean that, and then they'll tell me why They don't think I really mean that. And really just the generosity of time and time, talent, treasure, right, that these women have just given me so much friendship and fun activities and they'll go on adventures with me that I maybe can't talk my husband into. So it's just like, you know, being a partner in crime sometimes on just the fun things that we get to do.

Dr Amy Diaz: 56:14

But I think really it is truly the they lift me up because you can get in a place of self-doubt pretty quickly. Yeah, things are tough. I mean, being a president is a hard job. You have to make decisions that are difficult and sometimes not popular And even if they don't have anything to do with the work, they know when I'm down And then they help lift me up.

Amanda Kieper: 56:42

So you just described what I think is important in every single relationship that's thriving and they are attuned to you, Yeah for sure, even if they don't know the details Right. Well, it's just such a pleasure. I've wanted to ask since Terry told me I could be a collaborator and I told her she could be.

Terri Kellums: 57:02

Yeah, I begged her. I begged her, please No.

Amanda Kieper: 57:06

No, so I'm coming to Arizona and June to see Terry. I hope we can figure out a way that I can see you too when I'm out there.

Dr Amy Diaz: 57:15

So yes, Well, thank you both so much. I love the series. I'm behind a few episodes but I'll catch up. Thank you so much for inviting me to be a part of it and to get to share a part of my story. that I do think is important for people to hear And I really appreciate that. I had it And it's a weird thing to say, right, I appreciate that I had that really tough spot in my professional career because I grew from it.

Terri Kellums: 57:43

Absolutely, absolutely. Amy, thank you so much. Great to see you And we just appreciate you taking time to get on your busy schedule to be here with us today. Until next time, everybody, please remember to take good care of you. Have a great day. Well, that's a wrap for this week. Thank you so much for joining us. We're so glad to be here with you.

Amanda Kieper: 58:03

And just remember, we're here to serve. Reach out, connect with us on social media platforms and dig in deeper.

Terri Kellums: 58:10

All those links will be in the podcast show notes. So join us. We can't wait to continue the conversation with you over there.